When tia said "you have a destiny about you, William Turner"
Will: you know me?
Tia: you want to know me?
Meaning that since tia knows the real destiny and the true desires thats in Wills heart, she knows the real William Turner. and knows hows hes gonna end up.
Thats why tia said "you want to know me". so Will could also know the real Tia, and whats behind all that makeup and beyond that.
Box Office Mojo: Is there an inner goodness to Jack Sparrow?
Terry Rossio: No. Jack says it clearly [in the first movie:] there's what a man can do and what a man can't do. Those words encompass his inner contradictions—that's what's so beautiful about them—he's saying you cannot generalize, you cannot philosophize, you cannot come up with a simple [moral code]. It's almost saying each situation calls for its own resolution; there is simply what you will do and what you won't do.
That was an interview with Ted and Terry. So is he really saying that Captain Jack doesn't have any good in him?
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
we saw him do the good deed but it wasn't because "he should be honorable" he did it because HE wanted to not because it should be the right thing to do..he chose to do it.he didnt HAVE to but he chose to..where as Will just does it because he claims to be honorable all the time and he thinks he should always do the honorable thing in any situation where as Jack chooses to be honorable or not..and when ever it comes to Elizabeth. I notice Jack WILL always do the honorable thing to save her despite repercussions.. usually he just follows his own impulses rather than following a set moral code..but when it comes to Liz he will handle situations of danger differently I noticed.
well he always was a good man. ever since he freed those 99 slaves. thats why beckett treated jack lke crap and branded him as a pirate meaning a man who doesnt want to follow rules.
but sometimes u gotta break the rules in order to do a good deed. Thats why they want to make jack look like a bad gy bc he breaks rules. And actions speak louder than words.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
yeah but the point in he's a good man when he wants to be and he's a bad man when he wants to be..he has no set morlal standard. But I agree he often does bad things for the greater good...but he always has himself and his own safety at No1 priority when he does..With Elizabeth?? nope..he's not like that he puts himself in danger all the time to save her.
yeh i think that is a major differnce between jack and will, will is always trying to do the right thing, to be the honorable man.... where jack doesnt try to be the good guy, it jst shows through.... its more natural... i love jack.
sometimes i think jack freed the slaves more to spite eunuch-man than because he was feeling noble. lol.
i think he accepts that he's going to fudge on issues... that every decision is a little selfish, etc. he's gained wisdom. will is extremely naive.
i find will's naivete charming, considering even Elizabeth has really gone off the deep end into piracy and betrayal and survival mode. Will is so innocent. It's sweet, but it isn't the right thing for the world he lives in. It isn't going to make him the winner of this game, ya know?
"the only rules that matter are these. what a man can do, and what a man cant do"... i think this line pretty much sums up the moral code for the entire trilogy. throw out the old rules. throw out the old simple formula. we're making villians we can empathize with, we're breaking all the disney rules, we're not taking anything too seriously and our leading man is going to be a complete scoundrel. sound good??? lol.
Here's the thing, Jack wasn't always a pirate. He was made into a pirate by Beckett when he tried to do the right thing.
He has moments, when he lets his guard down, where his nature is very similar to Will's in that it's naive and trusting.
So the theory goes that Jack wasn't always the way he is now. He didn't always betray before he was betrayed--it's a learned habit. So in that way, he and Will have reversed roles in AWE. I suspect that Jack started off life a 'respectable merchant sailor'--similar to what Will believed his father did for a living in POTC 1.
Will and Jack have both at different times in their lives learned that the people they care for most cannot be entirely trusted. Those moments shaped who Jack was as a person and judging from the script of AWE, it looks as though the same can be said of Will.
Jack's choice to try to save the slaves was idealistic, and born of his being at one time, an "honest" man. But to survive in the Pirate world, you can't play by the rules, can you? So, to hide this more trusting nature, Jack did three things.
First, he learned to keep things closer to the vest, to keep his emotions and his inner most thoughts to himself. He is only truly vulnerable when he is with Elizabeth.
Second, he learned that the Pirate world is not black and white. Sometimes the rules are more like guidelines. Sometimes, it's better to betray a friend before he betrays you.
Third, he knew that because he was never born to be a pirate, in order to survive in that world he needed to create a persona. Jack Sparrow is as much a facade as he is a legend. There are moments in the series where the persona drops, and we see the ordinary man behind the legend. Even the walk is an act! (Look at the scene in the cannibal village for proof if you don't believe me.) In that way, his persona keeps his enemies at bay because they are constantly underestimating him. That is his secret to success and survival. Also, it's a bit of his down fall, because the people who he cares about most--Elizabeth and even Will underestimate the size of his heart and his conscience at times.
Personally, I think that his past has had more of an affect on him than we know. There's something about that particular event that changed his life forever--beyond his becoming a pirate. I'm curious to find out how it is that Jack got his revenge against Beckett.
Rumor has it that the slaves were still on board when Beckett burned the ship---How would that affect Jack if he were the only survivor? Certainly, that would explain a little of why it is he goes out of his way to help those who are in need. I.E. Rescuing Elizabeth and going out of his way to help Will...
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Last edited by savvysparrow on Oct 9th, 2006 at 04:58 AM
Interesting... I suppose that would make sense (Tia being Calypso I mean). I'd read that Soa Feng thought Elizabeth was Calypso but then, Calypso could have a roll in the film other than just that.
And the thing with the locket... She and Davy have the same one because he gave it to her. She was the lost love that he had and I think she fell for Jack in the end... possibly. Pretty sure that's accurate.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
OMG you really do see things the same as me!! I'm so happy that you are a member here! you seem to be understanding this the same way I do..a P burn is not enough to cause Jack to really hurt Beckett..he freed the slaves BEFORE that P burn..there is something ELSE there..I'm wondering if its to do with his mother..why the heck did Jack embrace a life so willingly where he doesn't have to take responsibility for anyone? a P burn? Yeah right lol..why is he so afraid to let people see the wakness of love he has to give?
if its something in his past he's running away from like the death of his mother I can understand why he fears letting a woman close to him again.
either way he has lost faith in himself to be brave for other people it seems...especially the one he loves...(until the end of DMC it seems where we see the return of Jack..the man he really is)
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 9th, 2006 at 03:45 PM
My theory is that is has to do with Tia Dalma. The rumor goes that Jack was the third party in the Tia/Davy love story.
I'm of a mind that Tia can't be trusted, and there her willingness to help them to find Jack had less to do with adoration, and more to do with selfish motivations.
I think that she betrayed Jack in the past, and he has subsequently learned that women can't be trusted...Hence his many, unsuccessful relationships
I also a gree that Tia cannot be trusted, I dont trust her and Jack dosent really seem to trust her either, he questions her, and seems almost like he dosent want to go in when he arrives at her hut
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
he had a relationship with her in the past though according to Naomi Harris..they were lovers.
I also think that she left Davy centuries before jack was born..but he is in a love triangle with her I agree..they did have a relationship possibly before she turned into Tia. She may have still been Calypso when they had their affair.
I think Tia is attracted to Will, Jack and possibly Davy
IMO she is far more interested in Will and his destiny however..
personally IMO I think Tia is Over Davy and I think she hasa thing for will, she knows she cannot have Jack beacuse he dosent want her, Will seemed very interested in her at the hut
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
exactly!!^^^ so true lol..
Instead of Calypso having Odysseus because he refused her and her offer of immortality she helped him get back to penelope..which IMO is whats happening with Jack and Elizabeth
Jack is clearly shifting his priorities he's not interested in the search for immortality and Tia knows this..he's not so concerned about his persona anymore because Elizabeth is now his driving force.
I bet we start seeing Will behave like achillies in the Illiad..in the end he's going to want immortality above everything else
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 9th, 2006 at 04:18 PM
I have a theory on that. Since I've said that I've long thought that Jack was a little like Will in the earlier stages of his life, it's possible that his relationship to Tia was a little bit like Will's is to Elizabeth's, savvy?
So Jack at one time was the earnest one, the steady and constant lover, but Tia was not. Subsequently, he learned as he says in DMC to watch his back and his front in his dealings with her.
It's just a theory. I don't have much to support it.
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Oct 8th, 2006 07:54 PM
