I really like to see this bio that you're referring to.
Frieza being universal threat doesn't mean he can actually destroy a universe, if that's what you're getting at. If there's no one as more powerful, as more evil as Freiza was at that time, then of course he's a threat to the universe. Also, how can you say Superman's combat speed isn't close to DBZ level when you haven't said how fast they are yet? Besides, I've yet to see anybody in DBZ move at lightspeed or go intangeable like Superman. To STILL say they're faster than Superman is clearly an example of being biased.
How does any of that prove Kyle isn't more powerful? It's not like Kyle is going to go around blowing up place in the middle of a city. It's not like every single attack Kyle uses has to be the same in power.
Also at least two of those fights don't count.....
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Seeing that they're completely different and one's comment was contradicted by the event itself, I wouldn't dare say Cell is more reliable than Superman.
And what do you base this on?
The only things that are clear about Frieza is his speed and energy projection. The durability thing is debunked and the strength feat is useless. If you don't make these things clear, how can I place somewhere in the DC?
So statement said numerous times is hyperbole because it never actually happened? By this logic, I guess Goku can't destroy a planet.
Tormenting the universe doesn't give you fighting skills, neither does mimicking attacks. Sakura from Street Fighter mimicks Ryu's attacks. Does that make her just as skilled as he is?
Based on...?
Explain how skill was involved in those fights?
Give me examples of all of those so you won't look like your BSing?
Show me Frieza moving faster than light or going intangible? Show me any strength feats that matches Superman's? Show me any noticeable skill feats?
Doing all of that doesn't suddenly means he's experienced. It's just like the case with Gohan when he was first starting. He had hidden powers and used it to weaken Raditz, that doesn't mean he's just experience as Goku or Piccolo.
If that's suppose to prove skills then you should say the same for Superman. He's done the same thing before.
Many of those scans you posted just show him getting hit just once. There's plenty of that for Goku too. Why not post the entire fights or at least explain the situation? Also, some of them don't look like it took place in the last ten years like you claim. Yeah, something's wrong here.
Let me show you exactly how I read your paragraphs
"How do any of those scans of Kyle regularly getting beat up by people Frieza would ash like they were trash in seconds prove that Frieza would be able to beat Kyle up, oh, and two of those fights don't count, just because."
That's usually what happens when butt-hurt DBZ fanboys cannot take it.
__________________
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
Okay, how would Superman know he can destroy a planet? Has he ever done such himself? Because I'm PRETTY sure if I looked hard enough I could find scans of Superman claiming he doesn't know the full extent of his power himself. For all I know, the full extent of his power is sinking a suburb with a punch.
The same thing you base your opinion on, it makes more sense to me. It makes more sense to me because the missing pieces of Frieza's body just so happened to be the parts that Goku hit with an energy beam and if the planet exploding caused the damage, then it should have just ashed his entire body.
Durability is debunked? How? You downplaying surviving a planet exploding point blank in your face with you in the crust and dying?
Strength is useless? Why? You don't like the fact that the high end Z characters were class 100 by the end of the Frieza saga? Tough cookie.
It's pretty freaking easy to rank Frieza in DC, just point out someone who you think Frieza's showings closest match and explain why you believe Frieza is on this person's level, I don't know why you want to pretend like this is Discrete Math or something.
I don't really care if Goku can destroy a planet or cannot when I see him capable of easily overpowering someone who can. I don't see Superman doing this, because Superman isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. Though, this isn't about Goku and Superman, this is about Frieza and Superman. The two are pretty much in the same weight class for power. If not, then tell me who Frieza would fall in line with. Aquaman? Firestorm? Batman? Who, who, who would be a good protagonist for Frieza.
Buu was created by magic to be a fighting/killing machine capable of learning any technique after seeing it once and mimicking a trained martial artists fighting style after beating them, he also gets more powerful by absorbing martial artists and I believe he even gets access to all their attacks. That just sounds like a cheesy 70's Karate Kid and the Legion villain.
Him fighting Goku with the only advantage belonging to the person who was more powerful at the moment.
Explain how skill was involved in those fights?[/quote]
Their constant blocks, parries and utilization of high level martial arts tactics?
I've already done such, but I will do it again.
Frieza is capable of sinking islands and destroying mountains by punching people into them, the after shock of his punching force is sufficient to level houses and destroy villages and by the end of the Dragonball portion of the show, the high end characters had already reached what could be construed as Class 60-75 tons. Frieza is much stronger than this.
Let's start with, not regularly getting beat up by people slower than Captain America. That right there shows a considerably greater amount of speed and skill than what Superman shows me. Everytime I read a Superman comic, he's getting wailed on by a robot or hulking beast that couldn't lay a hand on Frieza. If Superman's so much faster than Frieza, then why do these things only happen to him and not Frieza/anyone in Z?
Doing all of that tells me he was unconsciously tapping into Kid Buu's power, skill, and speed without knowing it.
He caught Raditz off guard with a sneak attack/sudden surge of power. He had to obtain a year's worth of survival training from the world's best martial artist and then needed to get pushed to his limit before putting up an assault on an exhausted Vegeta.
And this is ignoring the fact that Saiyans are born as naturally good fighters without really needing any training.
Of course he's done the same thing before, Superman has thousands of comic appearances, it'd be pretty pathetic if he hasn't. But he doesn't do it at nearly a consistent enough rate for me to take it any more seriously than the fact that he's been knocked out by gas stations.
Please show ANY scan where Goku gets hit by people as slow as Batman, Lex Luthor, etc.
There doesn't need to be an explanation to the situation, Superman flies in, gets roughed up a bit, and outslugs his opponent eventually. The only people that have explaining to do, are the ones claiming Superman is faster than Frieza and Goku, when you can't find a single instance of that happening to either of them. Oh, and they usually talk nonsense about light speed too. As if Superman ever blitzes anyone at light speed.
No, it hasn't, it's turned into Superman fanboys, as usual, wanking, and everyone else providing scan after scan to show just how badly they are wanking said character.
That's what typically happens:
Superman fanboy says nonsense about lightspeed and faster than Goku
Goku side posts a bajillion scans of Superman getting worked over by people slower than Chi-Chi
Superman side ignores any and all scans presented against them and post that one time he flew out of a black hole, since that one scan weighs more than the bajillion others combined, or something, followed by declaring the bajillion other scans don't count, they're all plot related. As if Superman escaping a blackhole has nothing to do with the plot at all.
I want someone to explain to me right now why Kyle Rayner and Wally West are teaming up to struggle to defeat notorious (not) planet buster, Shockwave.
Why does this happen to beings who are supposed to be more powerful than Frieza? How come you can't find Frieza or Goku or any Z-senshi struggling to defeat such garbage?
It's probably because Frieza and such are much more powerful than a friggin Green Lantern. Energy beams capable of leveling mountain ranges >>>>>>>>> green boxing gloves.
Oh, but silly me, I'm just downplaying the Green Lantern and Flash by posting based on the way they're actually written in the comics and not wanking them out to be seven bajillion times planet buster lightspeed blitzing galaxy bustering no selling gods.
Of course it's possible Freeza could take out some of those characters, since the only real character I know out of them is Mongul, and Freeza isn't taking him out. But Freeza also wouldn't mind nuking a city, or half the country with an energy blast. Not exactly something Kyle as a hero can do. Course if Kyle was smart he'd just encase somebody in a giant bubble, and nuke them inside that with the force to destroy half the country contained inside a sphere..but he doesn't. The same reason Flash doesn't have comics only two panels long.
As for the two that don't count......in one Kyle talks about how his ring has a limited charge, and the villain has his power battery. He can't exactly waste energy, and the girl even talks about him being out of power yet. And the other one he's just got his ring, and is learning how to use it without any training. He isn't going to know it's power, and he still beats a big threat of the DCU.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Not knowing the full extent of his power doesn't mean he doesn't know what he can do WITH his power. In fact, it could obviously imply that he can do more with it. Seeing that there's hardly at time he goes all out, it's hard to know what is the full extent of his power.
Goku blasted Freiza's entire body with that blast, not part of it, thus it makes more sense that it was the explosion of the planet that destroyed parts of Freiza's body.
That has more to do with Freiza's ability stay alive when most of his body parts are gone (like when his own disc attack cut him) whether him taking the explosion. So no, I don't count that as durability feat.
So knocking someone into a mountain suddenly makes you class 100? Sounds some stupid fanboy talk to me.
We have to come to conclusion of his powers in order to see where he ranks. We can't just base it on one feat and speculation. If that's all he's got, then he's extremely low. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
It doesn't matter if Goku can beat someone who can destroy a planet, the fact remains that he's never done it and thus, we can't go by any statement that says he can. That's your logic. It's flawed, I know but that's what you're saying.
You gotta also remember that he reverted back to Kid Buu, the original Buu, thus he doesn't have the skills of the martial artists he absorbed.
Which proves my point; the fight wasn't based solely on skills, just who was the more stronger one.
I don't recall any of that but still, that's nothing compared to Superman who during his fight with Darkseid, destroyed a planetoid, and even was wrecking a planet during his fight with Zod. So he's not Superman's level of strength, that's for sure.
One reason is because Frieza never even fought someone on their level and two is because Superman tends to hold back. And please, next time when you debate this subject, don't just refer to low-end showings. Refer to others that high-end feats (which are way more consistent that his lower ones). Maybe you'd sound more fair.
That doesn't mean he was fighting on the same level. Heck, why do you think Goku was fighting him a base form? Because Uub didn't know how to use his powers.
It doesn't matter if he caught Raditz off guard, he still manage to injure him, something two experience fighters (Goku and Piccolo) weren't able to do.
Also, Gohan is half human, which is why he doesn't share the same passion for fighting like Goku does.
So you think his high-end feats are inconsistent now huh? If you wanna jump on how often something happens in character appearances, then Goku will need help every fight he's been in, otherwise, he loses. Hey it's what's commonly shown.
Once again, you're referring to low-end feats. It's a shame, really.
Oh yes, there does need to be an explanation or at least, the whole fights should be posted. Just posting one part of the fight isn't really saying anything. If you had nothing to hide, then you would post the whole fights. Also, there's plenty of FTL feats for Superman. That alone puts him above both Goku and Freiza and he's FTL speed in his fights before (such as Wonder Woman and Darkseid). There.
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Apr 22nd, 2010 05:59 PM
