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Originally posted by Endless Mike
If Tokimi had destroyed the universe, she would have killed Z when he had only 2 LHWs - at full power he has 5. That makes him 8 times as powerful, due to the LHW formula. In addition, Zinv managed to reconstitute itself in a new universe after the former universe it was in was destroyed by merging with a different one, so it's possible Z could do that too (since Zinv only had 2 LHWs).

Superman Prime never demonstrated universe - destroying capability, his best was taking a blast by Monarch that destroyed almost all life in one universe (but didn't actually destroy the universe itself). That's like the difference between razing the surface of a planet and actually blowing the planet apart. We don't even know if he survived or how badly injured he was after that blast, either.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Endless Mike
If Tokimi had destroyed the universe, she would have killed Z when he had only 2 LHWs - at full power he has 5. That makes him 8 times as powerful, due to the LHW formula. In addition, Zinv managed to reconstitute itself in a new universe after the former universe it was in was destroyed by merging with a different one, so it's possible Z could do that too (since Zinv only had 2 LHWs).

Superman Prime never demonstrated universe - destroying capability, his best was taking a blast by Monarch that destroyed almost all life in one universe (but didn't actually destroy the universe itself). That's like the difference between razing the surface of a planet and actually blowing the planet apart. We don't even know if he survived or how badly injured he was after that blast, either.

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Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Speculation, Z might not have knowledge he can perform such a feat.

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He DID survive, it has already been confirmed.

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Originally posted by Endless Mike
I already admitted it was speculation. That's why I said it was "possible" he could do it.



That was a special situation - he was in a reality nexus which was vulnerable to that. He's never caused that effect by attacking someone.

Also Monarch said it was like a Big Bang, not that it was one.



Which comic shows he survived? Just curious because I haven't read it yet.

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Originally posted by Endless Mike
I already admitted it was speculation. That's why I said it was "possible" he could do it.



That was a special situation - he was in a reality nexus which was vulnerable to that. He's never caused that effect by attacking someone.

Also Monarch said it was like a Big Bang, not that it was one.



Which comic shows he survived? Just curious because I haven't read it yet.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I already admitted it was speculation. That's why I said it was "possible" he could do it.



That was a special situation - he was in a reality nexus which was vulnerable to that. He's never caused that effect by attacking someone.

Also Monarch said it was like a Big Bang, not that it was one.



Which comic shows he survived? Just curious because I haven't read it yet.

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Originally posted by superchron
[B]SBP also retcon punched during his fight with the Teen Titans, JSA and Doom Patrol

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1. Kay.

2. Superman of Earth-2/Kal-L could not do it(and IMO, even at his age he>Post-Crisis Superman), and he has shown consistent similar feats, he retconned Beastboy when punching out of the Speed Force, and he punched his way out of the Multiverse and into the 5th Dimension to bag Mxy.

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3. It destroyed the universe, the only life I remember being left was one Monitor, who even said that by all rights he should not have been able to.

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Originally posted by Endless Mike
All I remember was him tearing their arms off



Post - Crisis Superman survived the fight against SBP whereas Earth 2 Supes did not, so I would not give him the nod over Post - Crisis. As for punching out of dimensions and such, Z can travel across the multiverse and through time easily, so it's not really that much of a fighting thing. Also he had help to defeat Mxy, he didn't do it alone (and it was shown afterwards that Mxy wasn't really in any danger at all and was just fooling with him)



And some plant. Destroying all life in a universe =/= destroying the universe itself. Just like destroying all life on a planet =/= destroying the actual planet. The universe still existed, there was still space and time for that Monitor to exist in.

Destroying the universe would be something like what happened to the 238 universe in the Mad Jim Jaspers story.

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Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No, when he broke from Speed Force, he retconned Beast Boy.

2. Yeah, but in their fight, Kal-L had the upperhand.

Time travel is a special power Z has, SBP used physical force to accomplish it. Multiverse? I thought he only traveled through the universe? He only needed Annataz to zap his powers so he couldn't escape, he didn't need her help to beat his ass while she was draining him, and he even said,"If I was able, I would go back their and turn him inside out", and the writer confirmed Mxy was scared for his life.

3. Well, it is impossible to destroy empty space, unless you can warp reality.

Yeah.

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Originally posted by superchron
actually he retconned beast boy when he broke out of the phantom zone

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Originally posted by BradBalboa
Goku VS Superman-Stealmate

Vegeta VS Wolverine-Vegeta

THE HULK VS Good Majin Buu-BUU!!

Piccolo VS Blade-Piccolo

Naruto VS Robin-hmm.. Naruto

Van Helsing VS Spike.Van Helsing

Flash VS Rock Lee- Flash

Batman VS Inuyasha- Batman

Green Lantern VS Sasuke- Green Lantern

Wonder Woman VS Android 18- Android 18

Daredevil VS Krillin-Krillin

Fantastic Four VS Team Yusuke- Fantastic Four

Cyclops VS Kakashi Sensai-Kakashi

Elektra VS Sakura-Sakura

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4. No comic yet, Geoff Jones confirmed that he will be using him again and is in Final Crisis.

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Originally posted by Endless Mike
All I remember was him tearing their arms off



Post - Crisis Superman survived the fight against SBP whereas Earth 2 Supes did not, so I would not give him the nod over Post - Crisis. As for punching out of dimensions and such, Z can travel across the multiverse and through time easily, so it's not really that much of a fighting thing. Also he had help to defeat Mxy, he didn't do it alone (and it was shown afterwards that Mxy wasn't really in any danger at all and was just fooling with him)



And some plant. Destroying all life in a universe =/= destroying the universe itself. Just like destroying all life on a planet =/= destroying the actual planet. The universe still existed, there was still space and time for that Monitor to exist in.

Destroying the universe would be something like what happened to the 238 universe in the Mad Jim Jaspers story.

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Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Actually Johns said he'd be using him in a comic he isn't currently writing at the moment. So it's either DC universe or his project with Morrison during the gap in final crisis.

There's also the theory that he'll appear in aquaman. It's a bit out there but there is some evidence:

1.Geoff Johns wants to write Aquaman

2. DC wants to re-vamp Aquaman

3. Superboy Prime wants to have a team up with Aquaman.

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Originally posted by Jin Saotome
I agree wit almost all of that , even the Supe VS Goku (dependin on what version of Supe, Goku is fightin if Goku is fightin the original Supe, he takes it) but Kakashi beatin Cyclops and Sakura beatin Elektra is a bit much, imo.

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Originally posted by chickenlover98
you still havent stated your position on the fight. WHO WINS IN YOUR OPINION. state it

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Originally posted by Endless Mike
With 5 LHWs? Z

SMP might be able to beat him with 2

If he shows some more impressive feats in Final Crisis I might change my assessment