But if they were moving faster than light, she wouldn't be able to do a thing since she wouldn't be seeing him (the light would be passing by them so she would be blind). And Superman would be blind too if he couldn't see things faster than light - so putting her hands over his eyes would do nothing and be useless.
Yet it wasn't.
But that makes no sense - why would he stop if his goal was to throw her into the sun?
And there is no difference.
To react to someone in combat you need to be able to:
A. Move fast enough to hit them/block their attacks
B. React fast enough to percieve their attacks
Reacting at high speeds shows both of these.
Surfer has reacted and caught someone in a nanosecond
Iron Man has fought people with his punches measured in milliseconds
Yes they have - I just named several examples.
In fact, Superman can tag the Flash, who does that stuff all the time. So what does that tell you?
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Iron fist is able to dodge bullets based on his reflexes. Instinctive movements. However, that does not mean he suddenly has the ability to think in multiple complete sentences within that time.
Your second point goes back to what characters do while flying or travelling fast and what they do while in battle. Superman and any character that flies at anything close to light speed need to be able to see things at superspeed in order to function at all. However, attributes like this are very rarely portrayed outside of these types of situations i.e in direct physical combat.
Also supes stopped out of the pain as he is seen curled up in the panel. He didnt stop because he wanted to, rather it was an instinctive reaction to the eye poke.
Yes I understand that the reactions needed while flying at C speeds are the same ones that are needed in direct physical combat. The point is that the two are not normally portrayed in comics as being interchangeable. Hence out of the numerous guys who can fly at supersonic speeds and above, very very few of them have displayed reactions in direct combat to match those needed for them to fly at the speeds they do.
Who was it that iron man fought where his punches were being measured in milliseconds? Anyhow, as for surfer, he has reacted to blitzes before but has never actually engaged in physical combat where he was punching/kicking at superspeeds let alone light speeds.
And similarly most guys with surfer just dont make use of those same type of reactions in physical combat in the form of rapid blitzing etc.. Hence the reason i say that there is differentiation between them in comics.
Superman tagging the flash does not mean he can suddenly punch numerous times at light speed anymore than hulk tagging quicksilver means he can suddenly punch and kick numerous times at the speed of sound. You gave no example of either superman/wonderwoman/silver surfer/sentry intiating numerous punches and kicks at speeds that can be quantified at light speed. Now im not saying supes cant fight at superspeed h2h because he is one of the few people with uber flight speed that actially has quantified examples of him doing it.( He was creating sonic booms while melee fighting). However, as i repeat, he has nothing of such that can be quantified at light speed.
As i said before The sacrifice fight shows of supes impressive flight speed and reaction speed portrayed while flying. However the sort of speed portrayed there, (based on the comics) is not interchangeable with the speed that would be needed to punch a person numerous times at the speed of light.
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Forgot where the calculations were, but it's the time where he caught a bullet after it was fired from about ten feet away.
Nothing that would hint that Sentry is capable of reacting anywhere close to lightspeed, even though he can fly at those speeds in SPACE, just like Clark can.
Last edited by Jugglenaut on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 04:29 AM
Does it matter? All he needs to do is to be able to act effectively. That counts as reaction speed.
Superman could see planets on the end of the universe in real - time, that's an application.
But that makes no sense - if he had all of that momentum, wouldn't it be easier to just keep going until he hit the sun? Furthermore, the ability to react at all in that time proves FTL reactions.
Because you need it explicitly stated or something?
I can show you panels of Superman fighting people at super speed, and since we know he can move and react faster than lightspeed, it's simple to put 2 and 2 together. Someone is not going to write a page where it says "he punches at 2.6 times the speed of light" or something. That kind of narration just doesn't happen.
Honestly, the idea that he can do all of this stuff at super speed but when he's fighting he magically slows down a billion times for no reason is just retarded.
[quote[And similarly most guys with surfer just dont make use of those same type of reactions in physical combat in the form of rapid blitzing etc.. Hence the reason i say that there is differentiation between them in comics.[/quote]
Only if you use double standards
I've proved he can move that fast - I've proved he can react that fast - what more needs to be said?
Asking for specific combinations is just inane. I might as well ask you to prove that Superman can use his heat vision on Sunday.
[quote[Now im not saying supes cant fight at superspeed h2h because he is one of the few people with uber flight speed that actially has quantified examples of him doing it.( He was creating sonic booms while melee fighting). However, as i repeat, he has nothing of such that can be quantified at light speed.[/quote]
Except for all his reaction speed feats....
And why not? He can move his body that fast, he can react that fast.... it's simple deductive reasoning.
Okay, so then why do you assume that is his maximum reaction speed?
Then how is he able to turn around and notice this:
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Firstly the only reason i brought up the whole iron fist thing is because u talked about dialogue while moving at superspeed counting for something. I brought up the iron fist thing to show that it doesnt.
Nextly,the thing about a character needing to see things while flying at superspeed speed applies not only to superman but all characters who fly fast( hence those who do not have supes type of vision). If this was regularly applied to fights, they would see all the punches coming at them in slow motion and easily dodge all of them. Something that doesnt happen
And now to explain the rest. For characters who regularly fight at superspeed like Flash and Zoom etc. The speed that they can fight at has been quantified within the comics. Hence weve seen guys like flash and zoom actually fighting at the speed of light. The speed they were fighting at was quantified within the comic whether through time frame,statements from the characters or even narration. And no its not retarded for him not show his reflexes while in battle, its "in character". Im not sure if those rules apply here, but im using he rules of the comic versus forum which talk about fighting "in character" or in other words CIS is on. Hence things which are obviously within his or anybody elses abilities but which he consistenly fails to display in the comics regardless of the plot( Hence not PIS) are out of character and not valid.
Surfer didnt really fight the runner at superspeed. They talked while moving at superspeed then the runner cheapshotted SS off his board. SS got back on his board and the runner stole it from him and started running away. SS made his board return to him charged at the runner and had it stolen again. After that he and runner began a test of strength on the board whch runner won and that was it. Fighting at light speed isnt an in character move for SS either
No me asking for instances of supes doing such in direct combat situations is simply me asking you to prove that i is an in character move for to supes to fight that way. If heat vision was an ability that supes didnt use in battle then it wud be similar.
Supes can move his body fast and react that fast but hasnt put these abilities together in direct physical combat and hence it would be out of character for him to do so in a forum fight.( by comic versus forum rules anyway).
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Last edited by Naija boy on Nov 24th, 2008 at 03:32 AM
[quote[Nextly,the thing about a character needing to see things while flying at superspeed speed applies not only to superman but all characters who fly fast( hence those who do not have supes type of vision). If this was regularly applied to fights, they would see all the punches coming at them in slow motion and easily dodge all of them. Something that doesnt happen[/quote]
Unless their opponents punches are at super speed too
Except we know he can move that fast, we know he can react that fast, and we know he can fight fast - do you really need more? The rules do state that combatants fight to their "full capacity"
Also, I thought of something: Superman's last punch to Wonder Woman in the Sacrifice arc must have been FTL, since it knocked her to earth at FTL speeds (it takes light 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun and the whole fight took 1 minute and 54 seconds). Punching her slower than light wouldn't have been able to do that. So we know at least that punch was FTL
They were doing all that when moving at faster than light speeds through space, though
See above
So it's out of character for him to do stuff that he has proven to be able to do, except in a different situation?
By that logic, since we've never seen him use ice breath against Thor, it would be out of character for him to do so
While he is stronger, can he react quick enough, and Nappa has been shown to set off nukes by raising his fingers, how would Ironman's armor hold out to a nuke?
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Unless their opponents punches are at super speed too
Except we know he can move that fast, we know he can react that fast, and we know he can fight fast - do you really need more? The rules do state that combatants fight to their "full capacity"
Also, I thought of something: Superman's last punch to Wonder Woman in the Sacrifice arc must have been FTL, since it knocked her to earth at FTL speeds (it takes light 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun and the whole fight took 1 minute and 54 seconds). Punching her slower than light wouldn't have been able to do that. So we know at least that punch was FTL
They were doing all that when moving at faster than light speeds through space, though
See above
So it's out of character for him to do stuff that he has proven to be able to do, except in a different situation?
By that logic, since we've never seen him use ice breath against Thor, it would be out of character for him to do so [/QUOTE]
Surfer and runner werent moving at FTL speed through space. there was nothing to indicate that at all.
The rules state that combatants fight at full capacity within their given characters. And ur analogy is way off. If superman rarely used ice breath in battle regardless of the opponent, then it wud be out of character for him to do so. Not against a particular opponent but regardless of the opponent. Whats in and out of character refers to a characters battle tendencies with his given power set. Not if the character has used attacks on particular characters. Supes has rarely if ever made use of any faster than light reflexes in direct combat and so it wud be out of character for him to do so in a forum fight
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Why were the stars changing in the background between panels, then? (although it's been a while since I read the comic so I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure they were)
IM fought people like Sentry and Surfer both who are way faster than Nappa in speed. He's been shown to be able to move at mach speeds and his Amor has been shown to react to beam attacks aswell. Iron Man has taken nukes before and he's taken hits from people like Hulk, Thor, and Sentry.
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There was no notable difference in the background between panels. the only point were th background even changed was when both SS and runner started a test of strength on SS board. At that point there were numeruous blurred lines in the background. However even if at that point they were moving at FTL speed, they made no notable movements. All they were doing as standing toe to toe on SS in a test of strength which at that point was in a standstill.
As for the punch to earth, id agree if this werent comics we are talking about. In comics, the speed of a punch that hits an object is rarely the deciding factor in how fast that object is propelled or in other words the actual power of the punch. It has more to do with strength. Guys like Hulk and Thor have all sent people flying into orbit at high speeds without their punches themselves neccessarily having the speed needed to do so.
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Nov 22nd, 2008 02:58 AM
The power of a Saiyan elite is too much for tony as awsome as he may be !!
