Show me where he was without a force-field inbetween her lightning and wind attack? You are the first person I have ever encountered to say something this ridiculous. You just don't want Storm to be at these power levels despite the many feats she has accomplished. Despite the fact that Magneto has stated in canon that Storm could beat him if she did not hold back. You are really grasping.
Didn't you read the Magneto War instead of skipping it through? Ferris, Magneto's robot, states that "Magneto has shown that in the past he is EASILY capable of distrupting the Earth's electromagnetic field." Hell, it even REFERS to the incident in earlier comic, when Magneto Protocols were activated, and Magneto did what he did.
I simply don't need to.
You've by the way still failed to explain how excatly Storm would beat Magneto, when Magneto can:
A) Protect himself from any attack Storm can do with his forcefield that have stoof against Phoenix, Thor, Galactus, nuclear weapons, multiple explosions, missiles, lasers, bullets, different blasts, combined attacks of Archangel, Cyclops, Iceman, Gambit, Sunspot, Bishop AND Storm, Wolverine's adamantium claws, Captain Universe Spider-Man's attacks and have no flaws AT ALL (as Karnak showed).
B) Simply kill Storm with one of his blasts, which have destroyed cities, punched through mountains, shattered steel, vaporized tankers, knocked out Phoenix, killed every living being within miles radius,
C) Shield himself from all the senses of Storm, so she can't see, hear or in any other way acknowledge his presence.
D) When he can control the lightning that Storm uses to attack, control the photons that go to his eyes, making her blind...
E) Simply rip him apart magnetically, like he has done multiple times against different opponents, or control the iron in her blood and kill her that way, since he is able to control items on molecular level...and when his powers are mighty enough to effortlessly move Avalon (an spaceship the size of an small state), Asteroid M, huge mountains, tectonic plates, Mjolnir, adamantium and huge tanker ships...
F) Or simply jam Storm's powers like he has done in past to her and dozen other X-Men, with no trouble at all.
Panel 1: Storm attacks Magneto with her lightning. His force-fields are up and he tells her the her bolts alone will not defeat him.
Panel 2: All we see is a close-up of Storm and she tells him that what he says may be true, but those bolts are not the only weapons at her disposal and far from her most powerful
Panel 3: Magneto is engulfed in a tornado.
Obviously, the tornado smashed his force-field. To boot, Magneto states how it taxes his power greatly just to anchor himself against it. Your argument is silly. You are trying to assert that while he had his force-field up against her lightning, he dropped it after she told him that she was going to pull out a more powerful weapon than her lightning bolts so he could feel the full fury of whatever she was going to call down to see if she was telling the truth, right? lol! You are going for this very stupid argument trying to get around the more obvious and logical even that Storm's winds smashed through his defenses. This is a character that he has already stated who could beat him if she did not hold back. Your whole argument is also shot to blazes because he comments on how it greatly strains his powers just anchor himself against her winds. Storm is the stronger mutant. She smashed his defenses and could have killed him if she wanted to by adding more to that attack.
LOL, I am done with this Storm/Magneto thing. I have proven my point.
In regards to the telepaths, we know that the Warskrull was not trying to take over Storm's mind or read her thoughts because he duped Lilandra into beheading her while he held on as long as could. He was going for a kill.
In Uncanny 152, Emma's telepathy obviously lacked the power to stop Storm from killing her with her bare hands, therefore, Logan had to step in and save Emma.
Last edited by Rutog98 on Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:04 PM
It was never stated on panel or shown on panel...that his forcefield was dropped. Magneto has a tendency to drop his forcefield in the middle of battle out of pure arrogance....
That's all your speculation...never happened or stated on panel.
Already told you speculation...he talked about wills...but never said what type of attack it was. Banshee gets up before Storm...who needs Xavier to fix her.
Umm...no...it's called being smart...Xavier wouldn't have allowed her to kill Storm....in any event your so called theory that Storms resistance has increased over the years is speculatory...as a psi-fry that lasted for a moment knocked her out of the sky(X-treme)...
Rachel....shut her mind down...
Legion fried her...
Onslaught reduced her to a child....
Storm goes down.....
__________________
Last edited by ExodusCloak on Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:08 PM
Magneto is anything but arrogant against Storm. Did you read the dialog between the two? Storm: "You should have made certain I was dead, villain, that oversight will be your downfall."
Magneto: "That may be so, but your bolts alone will not defeat me."
The time before this when the fought in a different story, Magneto comments on how Storm could have defeated him if she did not hold back.
He definately respects Storm as an advasary and has no arrogance at all here. He would against Jean Grey or Cyclops, but not Ororo.
Your whole argument is destroyed. I'm thru with you on this. You lack any common sense. You obviously have in your mind where you feel Ororo's power level should be. You will disregard any evidence to the contrary as you have done throughout this debate. You have no credibility to me.
Now you have lost. Rachel shut her down because she was focused on trying to get free and was beside herself. Earlier in the arc, when Rachel tried to shut her down, she was unable to since Ororo was too strong and not preoccupied with trying to burst out of her imprisonment. That said, Storm's electrical power's ability to fry telepaths was ignored in this story for it to progress. For the purposes of this debate, she has the power. It nulls and voids anything you have to say. The moment somebody is built up enough to resists Xavier or Shadow King, they are automatically placed out of Jean Grey's league. I have no interest in seeing Jean confront them as I think they would be written down.
In the case of Onslaught, that mind control he pulled was an obvious write down for Storm. At the time he did this, he did not have access to even all of Xavier's powers as Xavier was resisting him from the inside and holding some of his power back from Onslaught. Furthermore, that was during the Lobdell/Kelly/Seagle era where Storm was weakened. She never had her indomitable will and even a Morlock telepath entered her mind during this time. This really hurts your credibility. We don't go with brought downs on this board with characters.
In the case with Legion, he was possessed by the Shadow King. So not only was his powers at play, by SK's as well. Not only that, but given Ororo's history, that arc was supposed to be a Xavier/SK arc. Throwing in a character like Storm really hurts because she is strong enough on her own to defeat the Shadow King. Therefore, she was downplayed in this arc. Hey, it happens. Like I said, if a character is shown lifting trucks in a number of issues, however, there are other issues where they are portrayed not strong enough to lift a car, we go by the trucks. Therefore, they can lift the car for the purposes of these debates. Same logic here.
Last edited by Rutog98 on Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:17 PM
And you none to this forum...continue reaching for nothing.
His forcefield has survived hits from characters with power beyond Storms....it was never shown on panel that Storm broke them...so you want me to assume she did? Yeah now who's being irrational.
Sure, ONE comic from 30 years ago totally nullifies every other forcefield feat that Magneto has, especially when he did not clearly have his forcefield on the tornado, considering that earlier it had taken Wolverine's adamantium claws, Cyclops's blasts and Colossus's attacks on the same time and had no trouble at all.
I'm getting tired of this bullshit. Storm has never, and will never beat Magneto. This twisted logic that rutog is pulling out of his ass is the craziest fanboy crap I've ever heard since wolvertooth.
Magneto has PROVEN that his control over lightning and electricity pwns Storm's control over it. No matter what tripe is uttered from the specious mouths of the Storm fanboys, *looks directly at Rutog* it doesn't make this fact any less true.
Magneto has demonstrated planet-wide power. Storm doesn't even come close to that. Electromagnetic spectrum control>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>weather control. FACT.
Not only this, but when a shield is erected by Magneto, there is absolutely NOTHING she can possibly wield in her power set to break it. Winds that she conjures up has nothing on the power of his magnetic force fields. Magneto's shields have NEVER been broken while he has concentrated on them.
Tell me Rutog, what can Storm do to Magneto's shields when he has taken a shot from Mjolnir AND She Hulk at the same time, and laughed it off like it was nothing?
Or he can simply blast the shit out of her. Magneto with absolutely no experience with his powers, lets off a puny (for Magneto) blast that cracked an entire mountain.
Or, if he wanted to be a dick, he could suck her very LIFE ENERGY right out of her body, using the "Bottle Effect" like he does right here to Jean as the Phoenix.
He can give her a stroke, an aneurysm, etc. etc. etc.
There are dozens upon dozens of ways for Magneto to completely own Storm's ass. It's inconceivable as to how Rutog thinks in his incompetent mind that Storm actually has a shot against Magneto.
This thread is filled with absolute absurdness. Magneto beats the shit out of Storm 10 out of f*cking 10. Same goes for Jean.
You fail Rutog.
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
The lightning in the brain was shown to work against mind control and it was written by Chris Claremont the same person who wrote X-treme...it's not a write down because Storm has not shown any resistance to this type of attack before.
And since this was written by CC after X-treme....could possibly be a retcon...
BTW On this forum we go by Highest showings..but they must be constant...Storms showings with telepathy are not constant.
It's still panel proof...you can't ignore a whole era....she wasn't written down...she's never shown that kind of resistance before...
On panel proof >>> then your opinion.
It occured twice...once with Shadow King...and once where it was just Legion...
She wasn't down written...she's never shown that kind of resistance before...
On panel evidence >>> your opinion....
__________________
Last edited by ExodusCloak on Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:31 PM
Where do you get 99%? The vast majority of her history sides with me.
Thor and She-Hulk, eh? Well, as stated, he withstood Cyclops, Wolverine and Colossus together. Therefore, his shields got their due credit in that issue.
What you don't see is Storm's power levels is greater than Magneto's.
Now I am going to throw some facts.
Here is what we do know: Storm flew from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minutes. Those winds would have been clocking at a couple of thousand miles per hour.
With me?
Okay, lets look at tornadoes and hurricanes. These are cyclonic winds. In other words, they grow in strength and power geometrically with their wind speeds. For instance, a 200 mph tornado has 4 times the force of a 100 mph tornado. A 300 mph tornado has 9 times the force of a 100 mph tornado. A thousand mile per hour tornado would have 100 times the force of a 100 mph tornado. (Hurricanes grow in strength in likewise fashion).
The speed at which Ororo can generate her winds depends on her control over heat and pressure gradiants. She plays with these forces to maximize winds. She has generated pressure fields greater than the pressure found on the surface of Jupiter. You have no idead how strong this is, do you? This puts her well beyond Magneto's abilities. Sorry.
Her winds have been stated to be strong enough to level mountains. She has also generated winds strong enough to scour the surface of the world to its bedrock. She has lifted buildings on more than one occassion (including a skyscraper). This puts her well beyond any hurricane or tornado force wind. She has created a pressure dome around herself and her team and summoned winds of sufficient force to punch her through a mountain effortlessly. These stunts show Storm generating weather forces than any hurricane or tornado. Storm smashing Magneto's force-field is just another thing to put on the list.
Now, for her to fly from New Orleans to New York in the time she did, those winds were clocking at a few thousand miles per hour. Lets say they were 3000 mph. Those winds will generate a force 900 times a 100 mph tornado. The strongest tornados we see in real life are about 318 mph. She can push the envelope well beyond this and she has with the stunts I have listed above. That means her winds are easily apprx. 100 times the force greater than even the strongest of tornadoes.
The reason I go back to Uncanny 150 with Storm is because Ororo and Magneto have only battled 3 times. First time, Magneto won because she was a novice. The next time, he won because she held back. He admits that she could beat him if she did not hold back. The third time is Uncanny 150. Again, Storm does not use her full power, but still taxes his power greatly as he admits.
What you fail to realize is a Storm/Magneto battle outcome (if both are motivated to win and not hold back) depends on who can draw upon more power from the Earth to power their attacks on each other. Magneto cannot defeat a character who can alter half of the planet's ecosystem. Storm has accomplished this. Show me where Magneto has done this without a machine or special circumstances surrounding the state of the planetary EM fields. Storm and Magneto have the same power base. Earth. Storm controls more violent forces, though.
You have problems accepting a character like this smashing Magneto's force field? Please do not bring up Thor and She-Hulk to me as we have already seen Thor's hammer absorb MAgneto's force-field in the past. That issue wrote Thor down. Magneto cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, withstand Thor. Thor is a guy who fights Silver Surfer, right?
Even Magneto has stated in canon that Storm could beat him if she did not hold back.
Now, please show me, who's "impressive" feat am I ignoring? I know you are not harping about Jean and Juggernaut. Are you telling me that Jean Grey, without the Phoenix Force, can hurl Galactus through a solar system? LOL! Once that issue was written with Juggernaut, it nulls and voids the other stuff. If we descuss Juggernaut at that level, then Jean cannot hold him. However, he varies. Storm's winds are stronger than JEan's TK. There is no doubt about that.
Last edited by Rutog98 on Dec 5th, 2006 at 11:29 PM
Magneto's flown at mach 100 before. I'm not impressed.
So far.
Yippy skippy. This means absolutely shit when he rips her in half or bleeds her dry.
Also, Storm's strongest winds have only gone 300 mph before, not 1000 mph.
You lose.
Unfortunately for you, I do. Jupiter's surface pressure is roughly 90x Earth's. It's gonna take A LOT more than that to take down the master of the electromagnetic spectrum.
It's sad that you can't tell those are hyperbole.
*yawn*
Asteroid M anyone?
Which is still nothing while Magneto is in his shields.
With a move of his eyebrows, he can effortlessly rip her body apart.
Magneto's still 3-0 against Storm... I think that's what you're failing to grasp.
You honestly believe Ororo's weather powers are >>> to Magneto's ELECTROMAGNETIC ENERGY powers?
Sheer hilarity.
And Magneto did not have any help from a machine on the electromagnetic pulse feat.
Yes, and do you know why? It's because SHE CAN'T. She's never busted through his force fields, and more powerful characters have also failed to bust through his shields as well. Nothing she can do can penetrate them.
Thor would take the majority against Magneto, but Magneto has shown him up three times now. He definitely wouldn't win 10/10...
You fail, YET AGAIN Rutog.
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
Last edited by batdude123 on Dec 6th, 2006 at 12:13 AM
I know excatly how strong pressures in Jupiter are. About 10 times of that in Earth, maybe less. I also know that it took Storm 10 minutes to create an Jovian pressure field, and it knocked her out in the process. Funny thing that you forgot to mention that.
Hahhah, your reasoning is really retarted. You don't know anything about the force of the stuff Magneto's fields have withstanded, do you? Do you even know what nuclear weapons are capable of?
One nuke does WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more destructive damage then anything Storm is capable of. There is the pressure from the nuke, AND the blast winds (several hundred km/h), AND thermal radiation, and nuclear radiation, and many, many other things. Magneto's shield shielded him from all this.
And again.
What in the comic made you believe that Magneto was fighting even near his full power?
There was no special circumstances in the first example besides the Magneto Protocols, and your whining doesn't change that. Of course if you can show me an example where it states that it made Magneto easier to manipulate the field instead of making it harder LIKE IT STATED IN THE COMIC, be my guest.
And more violent forces my ass, come back when Storm can lift something that weighs as much as dozen cities with EASE. Come back when Storm lifts an mountain and smashes it into her enemies. Come back when Storm opens the ground under her and decimates entire city. Come back when she actually destroys mountains instead of all the talk. Come back when she can destroy an entire city in one panel.
Then we can talk.
The trick is, that Thor wasn't trying to absorb anything, he was smashing Magneto's forcefield as hard as he could, and Magneto took it. Nice that you ignore the nuclear weapons, Galactus, Phoenix, and all the other things, too...
When he did not have a forcefield on, was fighting an entire team and Storm took him by surprise. He said that she could have beaten him in THAT situation.
Let's see.
You are ignoring the power of Magneto's forcefields and basing it into one comic where he isn't fighting near full power at all.
You are ignoring the fact that Magneto's offensive power is far greater then Storms.
You are ignoring the fact that Magneto can shut down Storm's powers if he wants to do so.
You are ignoring the fact...wait, I can just repost this list.
A) Protect himself from any attack Storm can do with his forcefield that have stoof against Phoenix, Thor, Galactus, nuclear weapons, multiple explosions, missiles, lasers, bullets, different blasts, combined attacks of Archangel, Cyclops, Iceman, Gambit, Sunspot, Bishop AND Storm, Wolverine's adamantium claws, Captain Universe Spider-Man's attacks and have no flaws AT ALL (as Karnak showed).
B) Simply kill Storm with one of his blasts, which have destroyed cities, punched through mountains, shattered steel, vaporized tankers, knocked out Phoenix, killed every living being within miles radius,
C) Shield himself from all the senses of Storm, so she can't see, hear or in any other way acknowledge his presence.
D) When he can control the lightning that Storm uses to attack, control the photons that go to his eyes, making her blind...
E) Simply rip him apart magnetically, like he has done multiple times against different opponents, or control the iron in her blood and kill her that way, since he is able to control items on molecular level...and when his powers are mighty enough to effortlessly move Avalon (an spaceship the size of an small state), Asteroid M, huge mountains, tectonic plates, Mjolnir, adamantium and huge tanker ships...
F) Or simply jam Storm's powers like he has done in past to her and dozen other X-Men, with no trouble at all.
Try again. This time, try to actually counter my points instead of spouting something that you have pulled ouf of your fanboy mind.
Oh, and I would like to see very much this scan where Storm flies with Mach 2...which I may add is pathetic compared to the speed Magneto can fly, and winds blowing twice the speed of sound will hardly break his fields.
Magneto proved this on a much weaker and younger storm then today, storm would have a better chance in her recent state. If magneto diden't have the iron stop and brain sleeper this would be a really, really close match. Magneto can beat storm but he is not more powerful then her as he is not more powerful then the phoenix even tho he defeated her.
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