You people should have stayed away. I'm cold and ready to go home, but I am going to do a post just to let you know where Storm lies.
To begin with, there was a novel that came out recently that talked about the various writers and what they did with the X-Men in coninuity. You know what was said about Storm when it came to CC? After the Dark Phoenix Saga, Marvel challenged CC to take Storm down that same road and evolution with power and all. Okay, lets see what we get:
To begin with, lets start with the Uncanny 145-147 arc. This story is a perfect (albeit condenced) parallel to the Dark Phoenix Saga. Here, Storm stands in for "Light Phoenix,", Dr. Doom for Mastermind and Rougestorm for Dark Phoenix. Storm has the potential to evolve into a true goddess. This has been stated in X-Treme X-Men. It was also shown during the 12 story arc that Ororo will potentially go through a series of evolutionary changes as she evolves from one elemental form to another. Okay, in this 145-147 story arc, Dr. Doom transform Storm into a statue of living chrome. This plays up her greatest fear of claustrophobia to its ultimate height. As a result, she starts using her powers subconsciously without restraint. She does not care, as stated in 146. Storm's humanity has always tempered her power. This was the same for Phoenix Jean. The Phoenix Force had all of that power, but the psyche of Jean Grey, with it humanity and compassion, tempered that power. Hence, "Light" Phoenix was more restrained and less powerful than Dark Phoenix. Mastermind's mental games stripped away that humanity. Doom's trick stripped away Ororo's. In the case of Phoenix, we get Dark Phoenix. In the case with Ororo, we get Rougestorm. Rougestorm, like Dark Phoenix, had near-infinite power. Both of their power levels were climbing though. However, in the case with Rougestorm, she reigned herself in as she was reminded of her dear friend, Phoenix, and made the choice not to go in that direction. The issue stated that she was one with the entire planet and could control every elemental force on the planet. Her breath was fire and ice and voice, rolling thunder.
Unfortunately, we never got to see her pull any cosmic stunts in this story as she stopped herself early. Not to worry though. That comes later.
Storm has a unity with life itself. For instance, she can sense the life force within living entites and plants. She can tell if a plant is sick or well even. Her ability to control the weather springs from this unity. It also gives her greater power. For instance, in Uncanny 165, Storm flew into a galactic core in a space ship. Once there, she summoned the full power of millions of stars. It was an easy feat for her. Naturally, it destroyed the space ship she was in and left her exposed to deep space unaided. She cannot surive in deep space for long and would have expired if not for the intervention of the acanti. Now, according to the issue, she was able to draw on the energy of the stars since they were basically huge concentrations of life energies. On Earth, she draws on the planet's life force to manipuate the weather. Her ability to summon all of the energies of the stars reflects just how much she holds back on Earth. If she can do that, then while on the planet Earth, she should be able to control the entire planet's ecosystem. As a matter of fact, I can remember a story where a sentinel used a gamma ray gun to trigger a blast from the sun that would destroy the planet. Storm, while on Earth, used her elemental powers to create a protective elemental barrier around the planet which deflected the blasts from the sun.
Storm can perceive the entire universe as patterns of energy and forces. She can then bend those forces to her wil. This includes planets, stars, empty space, etc. (Uncanny 162-165) In X-Treme X-Men, she was able to manipulate subatomic particles to create clothing for herself out of thin air. Her ability to perceive the universe as patterns of energy and forces has allowed her to see objects hidden behind other objects as she can shift her perceptions to see both as they exist as energy. She has tapped into planetary EM Fields (Storm limited series in the 90s), created and controlled em fields (1994 annual), and controlled Magneto's energy (final issue of the MAgneto War where she directs the energy in his energy tower to Joseph). She has been able to alter the ecosystem on a continental scale on more than one occassion (Uncanny 121 with North Americaas well as a recent issue of Black Panther where she did this for Africa). In X-Men: The Hidden Years, she has altered the weather for an entire hemisphere, half of the planet.
From the get go, Storm has been able to command cosmic forces. Uncanny 94 was her first Uncanny appearance. By 99, she was shown using a cosmic wind attack backed by the full power of the sun against a sentinel. Obviously, she is not going to pull this on Earth or summon the power of millions of stars on Earth, but I posted this to show you what she has accomplish in comics. She has even mended a tear between two realities that were threatening to collide and destroy each other. While in that other reality, she single-handedly took on the Trion. These were, for all intents and purposes, the supreme beings of the reality. They were elemental gods who formed the form and substance and totality of that reality. Storm overpowered them. This story occured in the late 90s.
The power and potential for Storm is nothing short of staggering. Magneto does not approach this at all. By all rights, she should be able to smash his force-field and overpower him. She smashed it in Uncanny 150 as that is the most plausible thing that happened. She is a much more powerful mutant than Magneto.
You guys bring up Magneto and Thor or Magneto and Apacolypse. Let me tell you right now that he has no business going up against Thor. One of Galactus' heralds, Nova, devoured a star. Silver Surfer is on that power level and Thor has defeated him. Thor has created storms the size of Jupiter. He has generated magnetic attacks that put to shame anything Magneto has ever done. He has absorbed MAgneto's force-field and beat him like a rag doll.
Magneto tore apart Apacolypse, right? Guess what? Apacolypse has rechannelling powers like Bishop. Magneto should not have been able to accomplish this because Poccy should have been able to throw that energy right back in Mag's face. Poccy's powers were ignored and played down so Magneto could look good. Poccy is easily a psi of the highest order. He can teleport, rechannel, grow in size and strength to enormous degrees, he has energy blasts as well as control over every atom of his body. Magneto can't realistically beat that and he certainly did not display the full range of his abilities in his fight against Magneto.
You people are backing a character who Marvel tries to play up at being a certain level, but he is not. If he were truly that powerful, Storm, Thor, and Acacolypse would be given their full range of abilities in Magneto story arcs rather than always being weakened.
__________________ Ann Nocenti writes on Storm: "At her command oceans rise, tornadoes destroy, rains pummel, breezes cool, sun dries, seas part!"
This is a joke, right? The winds from a nuke explosion top about 200 mph. Snooze...Read what I said earlier.
[Bold]
You mean other than the fact that he said the strain was enormous for him to anchor himself against the winds?
[Bold]
The Magneto protocalls is what I am talking about. The protocals did not make it any easier or harder for Magneto to blast the field. He manipulated nothing here. It was merely a magnetic blast on the magnetic field. What you have to prove is that MAgneto's blast would have had such a devistating affect if those protocals were not activated and the EM fields were not warped to the extent that the Master of Magnetism would have been killed by the warped EM fields had he attempted using his powers within the plantery atmosphere. You have to prove this because in Magneto War, when those protocals were not activated, Magneto wanted to do the same thing: cause a planetary blackout, but had to use a machine to augment his powers.
[Bold]
You should have stayed home with this one. You tell me where it states that Astroid M weighs as much as 3 cities? Don't ignore this. You post the issue. Also, Magneto has NEVER lifted a mountain. He pulled one down. He has never lifted that much. Storm's winds have been put on the level to level mountains herself. She's more deadly because her powers will exert that kind of force and pressure on any object, not just metal. Magneto would have had to grab ahold of the metallic content in the mountain to accomplish this. He is no telekinetic.
[Bold]
You really don't know when to leave things alone, do you? The Galactus thing was not impressive. Xavier and Magneto were just a small tingle on the outter edge of his consciousness. He did not even give them any attention. He just sent a very minor blast there that did very little damage to the area. On the other hand, Storm summoned a storm of such fury that it grabbed his attention.
In regards to Phoenix, you lose. At that time, Phoenix's powers rivalled Xavier's. It was stated in the issue. Read the words. Phoenix lost against Magneto because she ran out of power. STorm and Magneto fought in that same issue. MAgneto only defeated Storm because she held back. Read the issue. She was not cosmically powerful in that story.
[Bold]
Sorry. In Uncanny 150, Storm and Magneto were fighting one-on-one for this bit. She announced her arrival and the X-Men stood back as the two went to blows.
[Bold]
Lets see:
Magneto was fighting at full power as he was straining.
Storm's offensive power is far greater than MAgneto's hence this would not be a fight at all if he had no force-field. Your side sees that and are fighting desperately to argue he can withstand her though it is silly.
Magneto cannot shut down Storm's powers without grabbing hold of the iron in her blood. This is a very stupid move for him. I have gone through this at length in past posts and not going to post it all again. I will direct you to the appropriate posts later.
A) Where has he ever withstood STorm's attack on his force field along with the other X-Men? The last time they exchanged blows was Uncanny 150. In regards to his force-field, they are VERY strong. That is why only Storm and Thor (that I know of) have ever made it go away. Storm is the stronger mutant. And I know you did not include Spiderman on your list or missiles or what have you. Please. Don't include things that Storm can trump.
B) LOL! Silly. Where has he ever taken out a city with a hand blast? Also, all of those things you mention involved him controlling metal. He is very powerful with metal, yes, but so what? Storm is not Colossus.
C) LOL! This is silly. He cannot shield himself from Storm's senses as she has a unity with life and the forces of nature. She can feel him move through the area. She can feel his form. She can even detect energy being used in the area. For instance, she once tracked Vendicator through the air by sensing his energy he used to fly. Storm can alter her perceptions to perceive the universe as patters of energy and forces. This also includes empty space. Magneto will not be able to shield himself from this.
D) He cannot take control of Storm's lightning from her. Sorry. His control over electricity is very limited. Storm's is extensive. I believe you are mentioning Uncanny 150. Guess what? That should not have worked. Storm is immune to lightning is most issues. She has taken lightning bolts from Blitzkrieg (Contest of Champions 1) and it not hurt her. She has channelled the full electrical power of a storm through her body. She channels electricty through her body all the time. To begin with, she should have felt Magneto moving the EM fields to attract the bolt from the sky. Secondly, she should have felt the bolt before it struck. Thirdly, she should not have been hurt by the lightning. It has been stated in comics that Ororo cannot be harmed by any the physical manifestations of the weather and that she is immune to temperature variation and climate. She is also immune to pressure and can breathe at any speed. Now, this is sometimes ignored, but it is in canon and we give her the full range of her powers in these fights. Same with Magneto. When injured, Storm's control over her powers lessens. This is more true with the lightning as shown in the Proteus arc. Therefore, Magneto catching her by surprise with that lightning bolt (the issue states that had she been prepared for the bolt, her body would have been able to compensate. This weakness CC tried to impose here did not work owing to other things in the character's history. Storm is a more powerful mutant than Magneto so CC kind of wrote himself in a corner here since he wanted Magneto to come out on top.) hurt her and would have lessened her control. Still, he could still feel her resisting.
E) Again, I have addressed this iron in the blood thing in other posts. Go back and reread the thread. Do you honestly think we got this far in the thread and you are the first to bring up iron in the blood tricks?
F) Jam her powers? He's only jammed Jean's powers that I am aware of. He can't jam Ororo's.
In "Schism," Storm flew from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minutes.
Oh, and Storm's winds are much faster than 300 mph. 300 mph winds are not going to punch anything through a mountain nor are they going to move thousands of tons of rock. They aren't going to level mountains or scour the surface of the world to its bedrock nor will they lift skyscrapers or smash Magneto's force-field (which she did do. )
__________________ Ann Nocenti writes on Storm: "At her command oceans rise, tornadoes destroy, rains pummel, breezes cool, sun dries, seas part!"
Last edited by Rutog98 on Dec 6th, 2006 at 01:05 AM
First off, quantity does not = quality. Long posts, not impressive just long-winded.
Storm is a character who can fight in teams. Magneto is a character who can fight teams. The vast majority of her showings are nowhere near anything global in proportion, by the time she managed to create a hurricane, which would do all of jack shit to Magneto's forcefields I might add, her blood has been pulled out her nose and shoved up her ass.
Because she's not, and you're delusional.
Top speed 300 mph. How about "no"?
Am I supposed to care? 1) See above. Blood enema. 2) Storm has never generated such forces.
In your delusional mind, maybe.
Hyperbole.
She braced a small building. Skyscaper my ass. Spider-Man's done something similar. There was no forcefield there.
She forced her way through a hollowed out facility - the walls weren't thick.
It's called jobbing to advance the plot.
Claptrap.
Magneto won.
Blood enema.
The shield's have withstood Mjolnir's blows. That was not a writing down when one looks at the things the shields have withstood in the past.
Magneto's self-deprecation means nothing when he has shown abilities that can kill her with ease.
You bore me. No one cares.
Not canon. Don't care.
Figurative language, so? She's no Phoenix force and never will be.
I can do that too. It's called the ability to see. Uh. No. It destroyed her. She manipulates the environment she's in.
SvFL. Blood enema. Flashy shows mean nothing.
She's not there. Don't care.
Uh no.
And Magneto can give him a better fight than Storm, because Storm is absolutely nothing to either.
Apocalypse is and will always be a loser.
You're trying to downplay a character who is a certain level, and upgrade a character who commonly shows no such thing based on speculative bullshit.
Oh, I've read that story. Nothing cosmic powered there, though, like Storm herself stated, if she was Thor, she could have effortlessly cleared it. And she certainly did not show near-infinite power...
To all my information, Storm's powers depend on the area where she is...this she can't control the power of stars in earth.
Issue number for that Sentinel story would be nice too...i'm interested in how it can blast the sun from earth...
Yet every time she has altered ecosystem in continental level, it has drained her out. Clearly she has not achieved her Omega potential yet.
In the Trion universe, X-Men had different powers...
She didn't do that in Uncanny. The power she summoned in that place was not nearly enough to do any sort of damage to shield of Magneto if he had been fighting for real. Again, any wind in this planet does not have power even approaching a nuclear weapon, the power Thor/She-Hulk punching as hard as they can on the same place, the power of Galactus, the power of Phoenix...
Sure, Thor would beat Magneto. But not by smashing the forcefield through force. It is the durability of the field we are discussing here.
Magneto did not blast him with energy, he simply controlled the molecules in his body and tore him apart...nothing to absorb there...
Thor has beaten him. Apocalypse got beaten through reasonable force. Storm isn't portrayed weakened against him, it is the opposite. Magneto never uses any kind of major power against Storm.
Now again. You haven't shown Storm creating force on Earth that is actually capable of breaking Magneto's field. For the aforementioned reasons, the hurricane thing does not override the hundreds of other forcefield feats Magneto has. You haven't shown that she can do anything against Magneto's offensive capablities. Magneto has hundred ways of killing her, Storm, when Magneto has his shield up, has none. Plain and simple.
All Storm's amazing feats have happened in atmospheres and dimensions where her power is much greater. Likewise if Magneto was in planet where the magnetosphere/electromagnetic field would be much greater then on Earth, he would be much powerful. But the fight happens on Earth, and on Earth, Storm's offensive capablities are not enough to deal with Magneto's defensive capablities, and her defensive capablities are not enough to deal with Magneto's offensive capablities.
There is no doubt that Magneto's electromagnetic capablities outdo Storm's, really. The power required to lift a mountain itself is already massive (read the study about how frog can be lifted magnetically and you know why).
In fact, I haven't seen any major electromagnetic feats for Storm...have any issue numbers...?
The issue stated that she had near-infinite power. Unfortunately, she was not Rougestorm for very long. You cannot refute the near-infinite thing though.
Correct, but what that shows is that the closer she comes to a star or planet, the more power she is able to draw from it. Here, she drew 100% of the power from millions of stars. She is on the planet Earth. She of course would not drain all of Earth's resources as it will destroy the planet. She holds back, but it does show what she could do if she let go of her mental blocks. She could power up her attacks somethine fierce.
I don't recall the issue number. I am in an out-of-state university now and am going from memory on these debates. There was a gamma ray machine a sentinel a sentinel used. He fired the bolt into the star from Earth. The bolt triggered a solar flare from the sun that would have wiped out all life on the planet.
Wrong. In Black Panther, it did not affect her at all when she did this across the African continent. In X-Men: The Hidden Years, she was not exhausted after she pulled this on a hemisphere scale (though the storm was almost too powerful for her to calm). She still managed it with a smile. In Uncanny 121, it did exhaust her.
Storm's powers were to control the elemental forces there. Her powers did not change.
Wrong. Magneto's powers were greatly taxed in that fight with Storm. He said so on panel. You are claiming that MAgneto dropped his force field so Storm could hit him with her tornado. That's silly and it doesn't fir the dialog or circumstances and what was irrefutably revealed (revealed that his powers were greatly strained to anchor himself against the tornado).
Sure Thor can smash through it. Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which can wrap around an entire planet.
MAgneto grabbed ahold of the iron in his blood and tore him apart. He has no direct control over metal. He controls a force that affects metal. Therefore, he had to exert energy.
You know something? Sienna Blaze, in an issue of Excalibur, casually threw an EM blast at Nightcrawler that could sink half of Ireland, destroy Muir Island and have enough power left over to fry Nightcrawler to a crisp. In X-Men Unlimited issue 1, she fought Storm, Xavier and Cyclops. Sienna was given the full range of power in this arc as it was stated that she could potentially split the planet like a ripe melon. During the climatic confrontation, she tried to fire a blast at the trio. Xavier did not allow the blast to register. In other words, her body was still building the charge, but unable to release it. The point was to force her body to release all of its power at once to burn her out temporarily. It worked as the charge built to such a magnitude that it erupted from her body all at once. STorm redirected it with an electrically charged wind tunnel. Cyclops fired his blasts just in case some of the energy escaped some of the wind tunnel Storm created to redirect it. Sienna could barely stand after losing all of her powers like that. What Storm redirected put that blast she threw at Nightcrawler to shame as this was her full power Ororo redirected. Magneto has nothing in his arsenal that compares with this nor has his force-field withstood anything that approaches what Sienna Blaze can do. Storm wins.
Listen. Storm and Magneto are both VERY powerful mutants. What it comes down to in this fight is who can draw upon the most energy from the planet. They power their attacks with this.
Wrong. There is plenty she can do. She can protect herself from projectiles with her pressure dome. Heck, she could create an elemental barrier about herself like she did against Candra in Unlimited issue 7 which would provide protection and attack him behind those defenses. I seriously doubt Magneto can latch on the iron in her blood with her energy barrier in the way. That should interfere with his magnetic waves he would be trying to use to try and latch onto the iron in her blood. She could tax his powers greatly with hers leaving him not very much to spare for counter as she did in Uncanny 150. Or she could simply take him out of the fight by adding lightning or pressure attacks to her tornado attack.
As for EM feats Ororo has done, I just brought that up to show that she also controls those forces. She's never struggled with them or anything, but her major stunts tend to be more weather based unless she is in space.
Last edited by Rutog98 on Dec 6th, 2006 at 03:26 AM
Okay. I'm through with this debate. I have finals and all to prepare for. If any Storm fan wants to continue this, there is a very good foundation for Storm to win.
__________________ Ann Nocenti writes on Storm: "At her command oceans rise, tornadoes destroy, rains pummel, breezes cool, sun dries, seas part!"
Jean dies or double K.O.(lightning is faster than Jean, or munipulation of energy Brain synapsis). Strom telekentically moves ELECTRONS, air etc to created weather.
Mags loses.
Heat destroys magnetism(Curie Point) sun lasers. Storm could probably open a small opening in the ozone layer allowing pure UV rays in. After his magnetism is nuetralized, she could then fry him.
Enough juice will mess up Mag's polarity(Lorentz Theory)
Fry his brain, turn him into a vegetable, stroke, paralysis etc(Storm can perceive and control energy patterns in the body)
Damn, she buses their asses
__________________
Storm summons the power of the ENTIRE CORE!! UXM-165
Okay, before I go to bed, I am going to do some recap.
The Magneto side claims that Storm's strongest winds are 300 mph. lol Lets examine the facts:
A) Storm moved thousands of tons of rocks with her winds. This is far beyond the ability of a 300 mph wind.
B) Storm lifted a skyscraper. Once more, this is a feat that would require winds far stronger than 300 mph.
C) Storm generated winds strong enough to propel her pressure dome through a mountain. Again, a 300 mph wind isn't pushing anything through a pressure dome. Folks, you greatly overestimate the power of a nuke. If you fired a nuke at the side of a mountain, the mountain will very easily withstand it. If I am living on the other side of the mountain, I will not have to worry about the extreme heat, radiation (until the winds carry it over to my side), 200 plus mile per hour wind that accompanies the explosion or anything the nuke is generating. A nuke isn't getting anything through a mountain, though it will cause some landslides. It really just an itch.
D) I watch a lot of weather documentaries and all. I had wanted to be a storm chaser at one time in my life. Mars has an atmosphere closest to Earth's. On Mars, hurricanes occur with winds over 1000 miles per hour. Jupiter has pressures much greater than Mars. This means you will get winds much stronger on Jupiter than Mars. For Storm to create a jovian pressure field on Earth (actually, the issue stated that she surpassed the pressures on Jupiter), that means she can generate winds MUCH stronger than 1000 miles per hour if she wanted to. Heck, she would only need a fraction of what she did in the jovian pressure field stunt. Guess what? She has already accomplished this. She easily flew from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minds on her winds.
E) I already mentioned the Sienna Blaze thing. Siena Blaze puts a nuke to shame as a nuke is not going to sink Ireland. lol! Storm redirected Siena Blaze's full power.
F) Claremont is a very intelligent writer and he treats the characters with intelligence. This was especially true in the way he wrote Magneto. In Uncanny 150, Magneto had his force-field up when Storm fired her lightning. The next panel shows a close-up of Storm *ANNOUNCING* to Magneto that she is going to pull up a much stronger weapon than her lightning bolts. In the next panel, we see Magneto engulfed in a tornado. You want to say that CC wrote unintelligently and had MAgneto drop his force-field right before Storm struck him with her tornado. You would rather argue this stupidity than give Storm the credit of being able to generate winds of sufficient force to smash his force-field despite everything that has been established. Cyclops, Colossus and Wolverine attacked it simultaneously and Magneto's powers easily withstood them. It did not strain his power at all. However, when he had to anchor himself against Storm's wind, his powers were greatly strained. You also forget that he had to anchor himself against Scott's optic blasts otherwise, the blast would have moved MAgneto's force-field with him in it. (We have seen instances where Phoenix caught Magneto by surprise with a TK blast and it would through him. His force-field would hold, but he was not anchored). Storm's winds smashed his force-field as any intelligent reading would conclude. The fact that he had to strain to anchor against her winds blows your argument out of the water.
G) Storm levelling a moutain is a hyperbole, you say? No its not. Sorry. Given the history of what she has done, this is very in character for her. It would also give her the power levels to smash his force-field, etc. You are trying to limit Storm to 300 mph winds despite the fact that there is plenty of continuity that refutes it out of desperation. You are trying to write off or call hyperbole to these stunts because if you gave credence to them, then it would mean that Storm can smash his force-field as was shown in Uncanny 150. Your whole unintelligent argument about Magneto dropping the field right before Storm attacked him would be even more stupid (if that is even possible).
H) The EM fields at the poles are hundreds of times weaker than the magnets you put on your refrigerator. At the core of the Earth, they are only 10 times stronger than the poles which is still much weaker than your fridge magnets. The resources Storm draws upon are much stronger than Magneto's.
I) Characters are constantly being written down for Magneto. For instance, in Fatal Attraction, how in the world did he bring Astroid M into the atmosphere without Storm feeling it? How did he sneak up on the X-Men with that monstrosity in toe without her feeling it? It was causing atmospheric disturbances and she did not feel it? This is the same lady who felt a snowball coming through the air behind her that Bishop made in jest. Post Uncanny 150, Storm has never demonstrated these high power levels in Magneto story arcs. She does them in other stories. The reason for this is her powers are played down so Magneto can become a credible threat. I mean, if MAgneto is as great as you say, why won't we ever see in a MAgneto story arc stated that Storm can level mountains or scour the surface of the world to its bedrock? Why won't we ever see her punching her way through a mountain? Why won't we ever see her creating jovian pressure fields? Why won't we ever get to see Ororo focus the full power of a storm into a single bolt of energy to use against him? Because something like that would blow him out the water. A nuke is a joke compared to that kind of blast. You people mention nukes and I laugh. Storm controlled continent and hemisphere-sized storms which carries enough energy that a nuke is a firecracker in comparison. She can also focus a lot of these energies which means that she can use them to create storm affects with forces much greater than any hurricane or tornado. This would explain some of her stunts. Magneto simply has never wielded that kind of energy. How is he going to tear up Apacolypse when Poccy has control over his body at an atomic level? On top of that, Poccy can rechallel any energy Magneto would use to tear him up. Thor can beat Magneto any number of ways instantly if given the full range of his powers. He can easily pound his way through it. (Incidently, She-Hulk lifts about 75 tons. Storm lifts thousands and tens of thousands and more tons with her winds). I can recall during Infinity Gauntlet where Thor, Hulk and Drax punched together with a force strong enough to destroy a small planet. Thor obviously was the reason this was the case since he can lift the Midgard Serpent.
J) Magneto causing a global blackout is well beyond his power. I already brought up how the EM fields were warped beyond Magneto's ability (seeing as it was to an extent it would kill him) prior to his blasting it that resulted in that pulse. What really cooks your case here is Magneto War where the fields were not subjected to the tampering of Forge's machine and Magneto wanted to accomplish the same feat. He had to build a machine himself to boost his powers to that level. This totally discredits MAgneto being able to cause a global pulse on his own merits without there being extraordinary circumstances concerning the conditions of the planetary EM fields.
K) Thanks, 2damnloud! Storm has manipulated the water molecules in the air to focus the sun's heat rays. In another issue, Storm chose between focusing the sun rays through water molecules in the air to form laser beam and pulling electricity out of a planet's em fields to dispact with her enemies. She chose to pull the electricity out of the planetary EM fields.
L) You argue that when Storm had Magneto on the ropes in the volcano issue, she caught him by surprise and he was ignoring her. Guess what, he was looking dead at her. He had just beated Beast and thrown him right by her and was looking at her when she hit him with that blizzard. Storm said that nothing less than her full power would defeat him, but if she lost control, she would kill him. She assaulted Magneto then. She held back at the end and Magneto stated that she could have had him if she did not hold back. Storm is a more powerful mutant.
__________________ Ann Nocenti writes on Storm: "At her command oceans rise, tornadoes destroy, rains pummel, breezes cool, sun dries, seas part!"
Last edited by Rutog98 on Dec 6th, 2006 at 08:27 AM
L continued) The X-Men were coming at MAgneto one on one in that issue. They did not fight him as a team. So when he fought Ororo, he was not fighting anyone else.
__________________ Ann Nocenti writes on Storm: "At her command oceans rise, tornadoes destroy, rains pummel, breezes cool, sun dries, seas part!"
I'm looking at Unlimited X-Men #7 now and I don' even see Storm even make an appearance nor Candra, the only Candra thing I recall is in X-Men #60.
Also Storm doesn't appear in Unlimited X-Men #1 either....
According to the Official X-Men Marvel Handbook(2004)...Storms winds have reached 300mph...your 3000mph was only an educated guess...Marvel says it's 300mph....
Her winds being able to level mountains etc comments are hyperbole ...and she has yet to demonstrate any of that stuff ..as for that becoming a real Goddess comment in X-treme...surely you aren't referring to these scans?
Statements made in that way don't hold much ground on these forums.
BTW In Uncanny X-Men #121 wasn't that Shamans storm that was on a continental scale...she only calmed it down...and that took all the strength she had.
for me i think its tie? because if storm use the weather to fight jean grey maybe jean grey will be knock out but jean grey can manipulate mind, she will manipulate storm's mind then use her telekinetic...
Storm stated that she is a goddess alot more times then that
Yes it was indeed keep in mind that this was a much younger storm then today, and calmed it down is just another way of saying she stopped a powerful storm on a continental scale.
Storm does have her limits in the storms she can calm but that still doesn't mean she can't bring forces stronger then she can handle.
As you can see the storm she caused below diden't weaken her one bit, but it nearly destroyed her to stop it.
Okay, first of all, lets refute that pathetic hurricane argument that seems to be all Storm fanboys can cling into, shall we? In a nutshell, they try to claim that 3000 mph winds are enough to break Magneto's forcefield. Like said. First of all, the storm in that room clearly was not 3000 mph wind, otherwise it would have trashed a lot more then that small place they were in. Second of all, the power of 3000 mph winds, again, is pathetic compared to power of Galactus, Thor, Phoenix...hell, Magneto's field deflecting bullets already prove that 3000 mph winds are not enough to go through it, since most bullets travel faster then 3000 mph. Now, I am trying to say this as simply as I can.
One feat does not refute the hundreds of other forcefield feats Magneto has. The comic in question did not portray Magneto at his highest powerlevel, is not consistent with all the other forcefield showings he has, and can't be used in debates because it's bad nature and the fact that after that Magneto's fields have shown to take far more punishment. I am not going by weak showings of Storm, neither should you go by the weakest possible showing of Magneto.
Got it?
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Then there is the whole Magneto using machine in Magneto Rex, another thing they desperately grab to. Perhaps they don't get that Magneto did not do all that just cause an simple EMP. He did that to be a living part of the magnetosphere, to extend his essence beyond physical plane. If you had read the comic, you would know that. Like said, blackouting the whole world is easy to Magneto, like he did against Magneto Protocols. Storm fanboys don't like it, but the field was no weaker then it was before. So stop fighting against what you can't change.
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Then there is them trying to put down every feat of Magneto's by saying that people act weak against him. Examples of this would be Thor, Apocalypse and Storm. Examples of this apparently would be that Thor was holding back because Magneto's field didn't break, Apocalypse was underwritten because he was ripped, and because Storm did not sense Avalon or use her full power...
About Thor. The fact is simple. Thor hit Magneto's field as hard as he could, and didn't accomplish nothing. Physical force has NEVER broke through Magneto's field. Not when Galactus did it, not when Phoenix did it, not when Colossus tries it, or Cyclops. His fields are just that durable, nothing you can do to change that either.
About Storm not being portrayed against Magneto at full power because of the Avalon, Avalon entered to the atmosphere AFTER Magneto had effortlessly taken out every X-Man (Storm included). So don't try that. And Magneto is portrayed full power against Storm? Can you explain why his fields are weaker, he never uses the iron in her blood to take her out, he never blasts her with city wrecking blasts, and only uses 0.1 % of his power? Please, don't be retards.
About Apocalypse, his energy absorption is voluntary, not automatic process. Magnetism applies to him, so do forces like gravity. Magneto simply ripped him apart, and that. Is. It.
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Now, there is this strange assumption that Storm's control over electromagnetic forces is is better then Magneto's, which of course is as idiotic as an assumption can be.
First of all, Storm could not manipulate the energies during the Magneto Rex storyline alone, but needed Colossus to act as lightning rod, and the whole scan doesn't say anything about her using electromagnetic force, simply the energies she uses to control the weather patterns, and in this situation she had the help of Colossus, Xavier and preparation. She did not redirect energy in fight purposes, which is what Magneto has done countless times.
Siena Blaze incident. It was far from her doing it alone. First of all, they had prep time, it was Xaviers plan and they had minutes to prepare it. Second of all, it wasn't as she did it effortlessly in a fight situation, Xavier was holding Siena in place and keeping her from attacking...third of all, she had to make a special electricity charged, wind channeling tunnel to redirect the energy, and third of all, if Cyclops would not have been there to keep the excess energy from harming them (which proves that she was not able to control it all) she would be dead.
Guess what is best of all? SHE DID NOT USE ANY KIND OF ELECTROMAGNETIC MANIPULATION DOING THAT! She did not control the energy Siena put out, instead she made a tunnel that redirected it.
Now, Storm fanboys have completely ignored the electromagnetic feats of Magneto, so let's just post them again.
First of all, show his offensive power. Let's start with what he is able to do while VERY inexperienced with his powers.
Using one hand and not exerting himself at all, Magneto is capable of blasting through a mountain with amazing ease. A blast like this would vaporize Storm with ease. http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/...roughmoufn1.jpg
Here he fights immensely powerful son of Charles Xavier, Legion. Even if he has nearly no experience at all, his blasts wreck the city, and his powers violently rend the EM field. http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/...agblastsgm4.jpg
Here, while having had his powers for very short time, he kills every living being besides his wife in mile's radius. This would also kill Storm, and Magneto would not even need to aim her. The shock wave was compared to nuclear explosion. http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/...illeverypt9.jpg
Then the stuff he has done while more experienced.
Remember how Storm put the force of an entire storm in one blast (or whatever, don't see how that can be done, but...)? Well, here Magneto focuses enough power to destroy a small city between his hands. http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/83...asmallvimy7.jpg
It is a simple fact that Magneto's energy capablities are much more potent then Storm's.
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And they try to prove that Storm is more powerful by using ambigious examples as Roguestorm, who certainly did not have near-infinite power. Doctor Doom survived her attack. And the effort to take down the storm she had created NEARLY KILLED HER. A being with near-infinite power would not have had to do anything like that, and like Storm stated, Thor (who is not a being with near-infinite power) could have done it better then she could have.
Oh, and if you honestly think that Magneto is entirely dependent on magnetic field of earth, you forget that electromagnetism is a fundamental force of the UNIVERSE. Magneto's powers work on space as easily as they work on Earth.
And every villian states that they are superior to their adversaries s...doesn't make it true...
Example..."I'm Immortal" or "I'm the Ultimate Evil" or "I'm Unstoppable" etc..
That's the point I was trying to address...
And also the wind thing...Marvel Official Handbook 2004 says her winds have reached 300mph. Not 3000mph.
She calmed it like she did...in Hidden Years in that Beast told her what do do...Shamans storm(Which he created with a pinch of magical dust) taxed her powers...she didn't create either one though...granted she was younger then....
The other two scans occur when she's older though....the point is only to show that she has limits...
It's a good feat...but isn't Angels statement just to add hyperbole?
Storm admits that she has limitations (despite the ardor of her many, many fans), and Jeans picks up a distress signal during a hurricane:
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Same issue, Storm is unable to affect the Storm:
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Note this issue was written by Claremont.
So now, the question is this: All the times that the text states that Storm is the greatest or she's a goddess or the elements must obey her command--is it really true, or just hyperbole?
Also note that Jean mentions that the distress call is from someone they know, yet she never met Lee: she was at the bottom of Jamaica Bay when Scott was with Lee. Even through this weak connection, she's able to discern what is happening, where is it, and a connection to the X-Men, all pretty quickly. And if we're using Claremont as a benchmark for certain characters...
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Dec 6th, 2006 12:23 AM
