Ok, how does acid BLEACH your skin white? It would BURN YOU ALIVE!
And how is it people can call it lame when we haven't seen anything yet? It's all pure speculation... For all we know, he could become the "real" Joker at the end... Then I'm sure all the nitpicking would stop...
But seriously, acid would burn you alive... The only thing that works is chemicals, and even that can still kill you... So overall, make-up is the best route for Nolan's world... It adds realism and another layer of depth... Because a guy that dresses like a clown and murders people, "Clearly has issues..."
Lets translate that. "Yeah your right Bat Dude, but im still not having it."
No they're are not. Joker is still disfigured in the film and the Joker is difigured in the comics juts not exactly the same way. The origin of the Penguin was very much different from the comic
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Aug 18th, 2007 at 11:29 PM
Because instead of the Clown Prince of Crime he looks like a dirty street clown that lives in a meth house and doesn't wash up and uses makeup from the dollar store.
The thing I love about Joker is he is elaborate and meticulous as well as diabolocial and psychotic. To me this messy nasty makeup just plays up his psychosis but it still doesn't look like what I would expect the Joker to look like. Real talk I think he looks more like Fauxker. But like I said I haven't seen the movie, maybe it works in the context of the movie but to me his like just highlights the psychosis but neglects other aspects of Joker's personality.
JMO
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Its lame because it makes it so anybody can become the Joker. If The Joker is just "a guy who seems a little nutty, commits crimes, and wears makeup", then who's to say that #2 in his gang doesn't just follow suit when he's dead? Joker's always been someone that can't be topped, isn't a follower, isn't a normal person, and isn't just "some loon with some face paint".
I keep seeing the comparisons to the way Penguin was in Batman Returns, and its a good point. Look at what we have:
Penguin's distinguishable character traits:
Fat
Pointy nose
Uses umbrellas
Businessman
Wears a tuxedo usually
Batman Returns:
Fat - check
pointy nose - check
Umbrellas - check
Tuxedo - enough that you can check it
Businessman? = crazed deformed sewer dwelling penguin & circusfolk gang controller searching for parents, running for mayor, and having black blood
^ Enough that the character is turned upside down aside from appearance, right?
Now let's look at the Joker's distinguishable character traits:
Green hair - check...possibly
Purple "costume" - check
Acid flower - No.
Permanent smile - possibly, though I can't even notice the "cut smile" at all because of the makeup, and even so, it doesn't look like a smile, so if I had to say yes or no, I'd say no.
White skin - Not a yes, and not a no.
Lanky build - no
Pointy facial features - no
No facial makeup - No
No dark circles around his eyes - no
Not considered a Texan - no
Has no name - Yes, from what I've seen
Sadistic killer that uses gags and chemicals to make people die smiling - not sure yet, but it seems to me like he'll just be painting that big red "smile" on people that he kills rather than making them smile from a toxin
^ Enough that you have SOME...not all...of the physical details so if you asked people "which Batman villain is this supposed to be?" they'd replied "the Joker", but it definitely doesn't follow suit.
The thing that is annoying me, and from what I've been extracting from discussions with other fans that are displeased, is that we aren't upset that its not 100% like the comic or animated series, we're upset because details that make the character who he is are changed and for no reason. Chemicals DO bleach the skin, so why make him just wear makeup? That makes him, as the post above says, lame and simple, and against character. Would you like it if Harvey Dent just wore a Phantom of the Opera mask on the one side and claimed that was his "second face" because that's easier than him being scarred? That's basically what this Joker is in comparison. What about if Bane was just a big guy that never used any type of steroid, or if Killer Croc was a man in a cheap crocodile Halloween costume just because that'd be more common?
Change can be a great thing in a movie (ala the costumes in X-Men as opposed to yellow and blue tights) but changing a SIMPLE classic character just for the sake of change? Not a fan of it. Right now, if you threw a bucket of water on this Joker's face, he'd be nothing more than a laughing thug with long hair, and that's not the Joker that has the legacy that they need to do justice.
I used this exact same analogy. Two Face/Harvey Dent is by far my favorite Bat villain and I would be outraged if someone did that to him but I think it is similar to what they're doing to the Joker.
And I agree with your last point. If Vicki Vale threw water on this Joker he'd just get the bath he seems to need to get that dirty green shit out of his hair and that cheap makeup off. He really would melt.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
I reply to the post later but im still kindagetting the im going to moan about everything syndrome. For example it was stated that he doesnt ahve dark cricles he does, it was stated he doesnt have a lanky build well hes slim and im pretty sure the joker isnt alway lanky but he is slim like heath. This is nitpicking.
The Joker is disfigured he has a smile carved into his face, basically he just doesnt have permanent pale skin. So its not like killer croc wearing a costume its like killer croc looking like a crocidile but not as much as he does in the comic.
If chemicals can bleach the skin then anybody could also become the Joker also. What really makes the joker who he is, is essentially his mind. Assuming that Heath is going to be insane like the joker not everbody can run out and become the joker because people just cant decide to become mad.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
To me this is like saying Batman would be the same if he had a costume made out of real bat skins, hung upside down and did other weird stuff as long as he was in the right frame of mind and still a hero. I think the looks of the characters are apart of who they are too.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
How? Thats not what im saying at all. Your complaining that he doesnt have permanent white skin, my point is that essentially its his madness that makes him the Joker....and he is disfugired but with a smile carved in his face. The only thing his is lakcing is permanent white skin but thats just ONE part of who he is.
An accurate analogy of what im saying would be to compare it to Batman wearing a different batman costume.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
That is the analogy I am making. I clarified my post.
Bruce Wayne could still retain the frame of mind to be a crime fighter and an avenger but choose to dress differently and he would not still be Batman. More than his frame of mind make up who Batman is.
The same goes for the Joker.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Well no Batman likes bats he wouldnt kill them so thats totally out of character. Sorry the analogy doesnt work. Thats like somebody who likes cats killing them and skinning them
Yeah but this is the thing he still looks like the Joker. Did you get confused and think that he was Spiderman? Furthermore Batman suit does look different in the movie, if his dress was so different that he didnt look like Batman then I could understand.
The difference in his appearance are not so different that you dont know who he is. If they decided not to give him any makeup at all that would be really ****ed up. The Joker is merely a different verison of the Joker.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Aug 19th, 2007 at 07:42 PM
But you could say the same thing about the Penguin. His looks were a little more ****ed up but you could still tell he wa supposed to be the penguin. The difference in his origin and mission were what really shot the Penguin characterization in the ass, but still even if he behaved like the comic interpretation I still think people would have had a problem with him being so grotesque looking.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Yeah you could but Nolans Joker isnt as drastic as Burtons Penguin. We dont know everything about Nolans Joker its not completely different like Burtons Penguin for starters his disfigurement seems to be what tipped him over the edge, just like the comic. I read on the site somewhere that the Joker got kidnapped and people heard him screaming...thats probably were he got the smile from.
Burtons Penguin was deformed. Nolans Joker is still similar to the comicbook Joker.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Aug 19th, 2007 at 08:03 PM
Yeah well he does have that smile carved into his face.... Like im saying still very much the Joker but different. I actually would prefer him to have bleached skin, but again I think Nolan is trying to be realistic.
The problem with Burtons Joker is that he just wasnt scarey, you just didnt believe that he was a pyschopath. Hoepfully this Joker will be funny and scarey.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
KMC Community Forums
Aug 18th, 2007 06:24 PM
Like im saying still very much the Joker but different. I actually would prefer him to have bleached skin, but again I think Nolan is trying to be realistic. 
