Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Did I not say there are wrestlers in the WWE trying to pay the bills? It hit you over the head or something?
AC you're a such ungrateful babbler! WWE/F did not put up a show! It was the wrestlers that are there trying to make a living! Give credit where is due!
Watch the Olympics? Why do you keep mentioning them? Oh, you mean go watch real wrestling like Greco-Roman Wrestling? Oh, you fail.
You're a WWE fan? You don't say! Really? Wow! That's news!
Where have I belittle wrestling fans? I said WWE fans don't see the difference between Entertainment and Wrestling. Some do...others don't. The latter are wrestling fans.
Many credible music fans will laugh at my taste? And? am I asking them for their approval on what I like and don't like?
AC it's the weekend. Hurry up and post your next 20,000 word reply and go out for a walk. I also have some things to do. Do please keep it where is at...the discussion of Wrestling and WWE.
Out of this whole topic which took me ages to read over (thanks to AC and WDwarf, hehe), I would have to say you have both got great points to every arguement.
The Austin era was the attitude era which made WWF popular at the time, it did make alot of people tune in, but Austin wasnt a wrestler, and the Rock, I quote "he finished people off with an elbow"...not great wrestling but pure entertainment.
None of the above got me tuned to WWF back in 1998, 1 superstar alone got me into WWF and that was...KANE. as a 9 year old, hearing a masked man escaped from a Nuthouse and had people in whitecoats chasing him every week had me excited and curious - entertainment. But Kane is a good performer when he wants to be.
Nowadays, WWF/E fans are 90% entertainment and if they have no complaints then I have no compaints, wrestling fans, I am sorry if you are not satisfied with WWE but what are WE the fans supposed to do about it? I thoroughly enjoy watching Cruiseweight action and that IS wrestling, the other week on Smackdown with Jamie Noble Vs Mysterio was great, best entertainment and WRESTLING I have seen in a while.
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"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
I remember that skit like it was yesterday, its was years ago as well. Man time goes by fast in WWF/E...especially as its on twice a week, heh.
I loved his backstage interviews.
Discos - Michael Cole you will stand their with that mic to the rock with the Rocks Tshirt over your head. haha.
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"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
I'll post whatever quantity I desire until you can show me I'm breaking rules.
A) Yes, you do. You've done it when we debated movies, when we've debated music, and you're doing it now when we debate wrestling. You ask questions you've already decided the answer to, or, you just ignore the answer. You can't debate.
B) I never said anything else. You are incapable of keeping up, it seems.
Rulebook?
I call it wrestling because that's what it's known as. There is wrestling involved in their company and their shows, do you deny this? There you go, then.
It's not wrestling in the sense of what you or I would know, but that doesn't mean it isn't wrestling, AT ALL. I agree there are people who believe the WWE is the peak of wrestling performance and that is ignorance. I never have, never will, but to say it's not wrestling, AT ALL, is more stupid. Like people who say hip hop isn't music.
There you go with the stupid assumptions. Maybe you should stop "masquerading" as someone with intelligent views on wrestling.
It was a wrestling match in the SENSE that there were people, in a ring, having a wrestling BASED entertainment match. It's not based on boxing, martial arts etc. It's based on wrestling, there's wrestling involved. The very fact that you suggest it is not wrestling because it's not Mexican traditional or Japanese traditional is retarded beyond comprehension.
If you wanna get that technical, Kurt Angle is a REAL wrestler, and he considers the WWE, TNA etc to be WRESTLING federations. I think he has a more credible opinion than a grammar-plagued, fingers-in-ears childish debater on the internet who thinks he is cool cos he can name obscure feds that even someone ten years his junior knows about.
I don't consider WWE wrestling like I consider olympics wrestling, I don't consider it wrestling like I considered other less hype-based feds wrestling, but it still contains wrestling. To say it doesn't is retarded.
Wide view? It's just about the most narrow, pretentious view anybody could possibly hold. "It's not wrestling cos it has more hype than wrestling.". You're just being dumb. You watch scripted wrestling too.
I don't suck up what WWE gives me, I haven't watched it for a better part of three years. I liked the Austin era by choice, I saw it for what it was.
You are falsely trying to separate them ENTIRELY. In WWE, I can differentiate between entertainment and wrestling. The Rock Vs Austin is hype, Angle Vs Benoit is wrestling and hype. The point is, you cannot wrap your brain around the idea.
Why are you being such a baby? He's not my favourite entertainer, I never said he was a wrestler.
Where are you getting all this from? Oh, it's the same old desperation retort you throw out because you have as much debating talent as The Rock had wrestling talent. You talk well, grapple poorly.
I'm surprised you have enough room up your ass to fit all this bs you're pulling out of it. Then again, I suppose there's always the trusty thin air, but you fill most of that up with your debate material don't you? Haha, lame.
No need to over-compensate for being intimidated or perhaps ashamed that I'm getting the best of you, I don't think less of you. Just think first, post second.
Oh so simple.
My point in saying that was EXACTLY that. Who gives a shit? Nobody. Nobody gives a shit about what you have to preach as if it impresses anyone. Nothing you've said I didn't know, and I'm ten years younger than you, SO WHAT? It means nothing, so in future, don't bring it up as if it aids you in a debate...about WWE.
In your opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying it's your opinion. Do I have to "school" you on fact/opinion?
Benoit's brain was damaged as a result of his in ring activity with WWE. Why do you think that is? Might have been because everyone loved what he did. The...enter...tain...ment. Entertainers and wrestlers do not have to be separate.
You are so confused. If it's not hype, as in, excitement, what is it?
Taker throwing Foley off the cell was hype. People were hyped by that.
Hahaha, so? "It's close to me.". So what? You make me laugh. As if it being meaningful to you somehow makes you a scholar on it by default, and gives you a right to have the debate treated delicately, while you feel you can stomp around calling people idiots for liking Austin.
You can't, and as always, I'll take your debate apart.
Then who brought those wrestlers to the people and allowed them to be ENTERTAINED by WRESTLING?
No, you're talking about how we should separate the two, so I am. If you don't wanna go all the way, don't start the race, WD.
Shh, read my posts. I've not watched WWE with any regularity since 2004.
Show me where you get the right to decide that. You belittle in that very quote, you hypocritical fool.
Am I asking you? You have as much factual clarification over anyone's taste as I have over your musical taste. You don't get to choose or say what I WAS sucked into, why, or what I like for what reasons. You just don't. You're a mod on KMC, not mod of life.
Yeah, keep it on topic. Not "I know facts about WWE, because I watch obscure Mexican wrestling.".
Your beloved Bret Hart considers WWF a wrestling federation.
Does it have to be "real" for you to talk about. We know that the shows are scripted but so are shows like heroes and prison break and people talk about them. So I could go into the tv forum and say how its sad how people talk about them like that. You can do that for a lot of the forums here. So why is wrestling any different?
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Oh, you're not breaking any rules. If you were I would come down on your ass hard. What you're doing is blowing things out of proportion. Not satisfied with a few replies you seek to drown in a glass of water. I, however explain that there is no need to make a declaration in such a small discussion. Which I will remind you...it's about Stone Cold not been a wrestler but an entertainer. It happens that WWE fans can't seem to separate the two. If you've already gotten that through your head...then what's the rest of this mumble-jumble?
A. I ask questions that I want your answers from...what you don't like are my questions! You can't answer a direct question. Simple!
B. Keeping up with what? You're babble? Give it a rest too AC.
Then if you agree with me from that point of view...what the hell are you venting about?
Stupid assumptions? That's YOU making them! What I'm doing is a "critique".
Because when you see Mexican and Japanese style of wrestling you see more technical moves. More skill actions. Sure, they have their own charade...but not as ridicolus as WWE. Don't come here and try to excuse WWE. It's joke on your part. WWE knows very well that actual wrestling won't sell unless they add the idiotic acting and drama. Without the mainstream WWE would fall flat on their ass!
Oh, I'm sure Kurt have his own opinions. Just like I have my own. Too bad you can't get your own thanks to Mc Mahon's hype machine you seem to be operating.
Neither do I...but it does contain more hype, acting, drama, music than any other wrestling group out there.
Yes it's a wide view. Not my problem you're looking it with one eye close rather than both eyes open.
Yes you do! Stop denying it. This isn't an inquisition. I'm not the wrestling fan police. I'm not asking you when you stop watching. Nor do I care. But on personal opinion you prolly stop watching after your idol Stone Cold stop acting on the ring.
Good! You want a pat on the back for that? Now did just figure that out after this argument? I school ya, didn't I?
Oh, I'm the baby? Yeah, I'm the one who's blowing things out proportion because I call out your idol Stone Cold. I should spank your ass and send you to your room. That outta help.
I don't put things on my ass. I stuff asses with my long and hard reasoning. You're the virgin that can't take it.
Back at you.
See how idiotic you just made yourself look like? What point have you proven? That you don't have one to begin with?
If you or anyone don't give a shit..then what the friggin crap is all this you been posting for two days?
Then shut your hole! You agree..that's good enough.
Benoit was damage as a result of the WWE complete carelessness and improper way to correct and discipline their employees! I call you a big bullshit on you for that! The man need it help! Was it giving to him? Oh, yeah Mc Mahon ******* would say so! Because it's Mc Mahon saying it so you suck it up. I can't wait to see what would happen once the Feds raid the WWE.
It's a monkey dancing on the streets Hype? It's a dog performing tricks on a promenade street hype? No? I guess it's entertaiment and not hype. It's Spiderman 3 hyped? Yeah, was it entertainment? To some, yes. To me...no. To you? Who gives a shit....right AC?
Quit rewarding yourself with assumptions. Yes, to me it's close. Because of my own experiences which I have no desire to share them with you. As if you would have any interest to begin with.
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Last edited by WanderingDroid on Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:56 PM
Come down on my ass hard, wow, big man. Funny, but tough.
Secondly, you are the one who gets so confused, pins the confusion on others and then claim your opponents say shit they never said.
I said Austin is a wrestler as an occupation, not that he WRESTLES. I specifically stated the opposite yet you either chose to ignore it like a child or reply in a needless manner. I can separate the two, but knowing I've got the best of you like I always do, you seek any reason to reply to me.
Austin IS an entertainer. So is Robbie Williams. What does Austin specifically entertain as? Why are they both not just called "Entertainers"? Because their brand of entertainment is specfic. So what is Austin classified as? His job wouldn't be labelled simply as "Entertainer".
I've answered every question you've asked and I've taken apart every argument you've produced. What I DID expect was your childish, presumptuous replies as you always do. No matter how clear anybody is with you, the assumptions keep on coming. I am not half as pretentious or undeservedly arrogant as you are, I couldn't even dream of it.
Like I said, you're not mod of life. You don't get to decide how I post if I'm not breaking rules. I'll ask you to stop being a silly boy.
The fact that in spite of me clearly agreeing with you, you are ignoring every other point I'm making in contradiction to your silly, sweeping generalisations just because you feel "We agree, debate over.". You're an ignorant person. You've ignored me saying that Austin doesn't "wrestle" so many times.
It's not. "You sucked it up.", "What you do, is suck everything up.", "You think Austin is a wrestler." etc. That's not a critique, that's being an idiot.
So? I'm not denying that. Don't add additional points out of thin air just to make it look like we're arguing new points. You're shifting because you've lost.
I never once excused the ridiculousness of WWE, I merely told you that you were wrong for acting like the ridiculousness therefore means there is NO wrestling. That's a retarded point.
"I don't make assumptions.", "It's a critique.".
You're an ignorant fool. I've told you, tirelessly, that I made my own choice. Because YOU dislike it, you parrot that same point over and over. It's truly sad that someone your age cannot form an adult, mature argument, but sits there, fingers in ears, going "Lalalalalala not listening.".
Right. Bring a point with that?
Whatever makes you sleep at night. You're clearly just contented with convincing yourself I did things for reasons that make your argument better, untrue or not. I'll ALLOW the baby to have his bottle, in this case.
Honestly, kid, what do you get out of that? I've told you that's not the case, so why do you keep insisting it? I'm just going to take the high road, leave you to your immature crying and insisting I'm saying/believing things I'm not, and allow everyone to see your stupid debates for what they are.
I've never said he was my idol, I stopped watching a LONG time after he left. I've cited WWE's decline as many reasons, none of them are solely dependent on Stone Cold's departure and even his subsequent return made no difference because he IS an actor and given shitty parts he cannot do a good job. You choose to ignore all this, like you do in any debate, because you act like a child. It's truly sad and I pity the fact that the only person in this thread who probably sees you as a mature wrestling fan is you. You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy.
What do you honestly get out of being a whiney little child in debates? Genuinely curious.
Hahaha, you make me laugh. You're either blowing things out of proportion like a child because you are trying to gain the edge, as you fail miserably to do so fairly and in the context of debate, or you act like some touch, internet mod-cop. You're a joke, your debates are a joke and your methods are a joke.
Come back when you can drop the method of "I'll keep repeating something despite him clarifying it's not true.". Grow up, dude.
Aww, haha.
Look at what I've reduced you to. Making the argument about me.
You entertain me, you're the Austin of debaters. Actually, you're the Nathan Jones of debaters. All the attempted hype and intimidation in the world, but in reality, whenever you get involved in debates, you're just exposed as a paper-thin child-case who cannot stick to a logical or sensible point. Choosing, not to accept certain clarifications, just to childishly repeat the ones he believes in his mind.
I've had to lead you by the hand because all you keep doing is bringing up things I've never said, and I've had to tell you why they're wrong because I've not said them. So you launch another childish, irrelevant tirade.
This would have been over pretty sharpish if you'd not got scared and had actually realised that my posts were pretty clear. You chose not to, you chose to insist on something I specifically said I didn't believe. You see, my debate will win this for me, your immaturity will lose it for you. You believe that continually convincing yourself of a false debate that I have will make it true, tsk. It won't.
Nah, I won't "shut my hole", nice of you to ask. Nice, reasonable, eloquent language coming from a mod, though.
*Points to palm of hand* You always end up right there. Not sure why you don't start trying to avoid it.
Huh? My whole point there was that he did it wrestling, and he did. His brain damage was a result of WWE's carelessness and his own personal carelessness in the ring while WRESTLING. Medical studies show he was the equivelent of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient. From WRESTLING. WRESTLING IN WWE.
Why go on about McMahon again? He has nothing to do with this point. Oh, you're convincing yourself, carry on.
I define hype as not ONLY promotion, but the excitement the actual product generates.
Gotta love that hypocricy. I have no interest in your stories, wrestling? I do. You have convinced yourself otherwise, though, so again, I'll let the baby have his rattle.
Why would I want to debate it?
Debate that comment without lies, convincing yourself of lies, general childish bullshit and a stupid debate.
I'm gonna go with Stone Cold. While I love The Rock, Austin was part of some of the most enjoyable storylines in WWF(E) history, I think. His long going feud with McMahon was so much fun to watch, it was the primary reason for me to tune in each week. His backstage antics were just classic.
Plus his music was just too exhilarating. I think the Glass shattering intro to his song was flawless, and a big reason for his success. People just heard that sound and would go nuts. It was great for runins.
Plus his finisher -- The stunner, was great. It was quick and could come out of nowhere, making his matches feel much less predictable, it could just BOOM, be over like that.
While he wasn't a great wrestler, his charisma was grand. And his ability to excite the fans, top notch.
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
More Babble! This way to the actual point of your rants ----->
Don't shut it...just sit there on your PC and keep rambling. You make it more amusing.
Oh, nice you're saying after the fact. So according to you Mc Mahon have nothing to do with this....yeah, that Mc Mahon is one clever trickster. He has nothing to do with this...he doesn't sign the checks...he doesn't organize the events...he doesn't make the contracts...he doesn't make the rules....all that..put a halo and harp on Vince.
I define hype as blowing things out of proportion. In your case something you're very familiar with.
No one is giving them to you. Something you could have discard by now. But instead use it to make a childish attack.
It's not babble, it's me calling you out on your bs.
Excellent. Then we are amusing each other.
I said he had nothing to do with my point. Do you genuinely have perception problems, WD? YOU brought McMahon into the debate about Benoit. Benoit was out there doing what he loved, wrestling. Moves with impact, fifteen german suplexes in a row. That's HIS choice, it wasn't Vince entirely. Proof? He was doing the same shit in Japan, in WCW.
When I said Vince had nothing to do with it I meant I was making a point about how Benoit got injured WRESTLING, in WWE. You brought McMahon into it. I never excused nor implicated him.
Your posts speak for themselves, I'm not the only one seeing it. You do it all the time.
I'm not doing anything childish, I'm not telling you to shut your hole, going around factually claiming you said and believed things you didn't and do not. You did, because you are a really...really poor debater, and I am quite simply better at it than you.
Huh? Are you simple?
I asked why I would want to debate it because I never, ever disagreed that Austin was an entertainer and couldn't wrestle to save his life. I've actually said that in other threads when discussing the man. You take serious, sleep-depriving issue with me finding him entertaining to the point that anyone who DID was a sucker and an idiot.
Why would I debate something I agree with? That's the whole point. You are confused, you've convinced yourself of something in your "brain", and then projected it onto me.
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
You more than me.
Then if he was doing it in Japan and with WCW. Why did the WWE hired him in the first place? And if he was hired and wasn't unknown he should have been tested properly.
You sure you're not backpedaling here?
Ooookay....
Well I'm been the adult here and treating you like a child. Until you drop all that other babble I will continue to treat you in such way. Bring the adult in you anytime.
Because you don't just GET that kind of brain damage, WD. I'm not sure what you've been taught.
It's true, the WWF/E's wellness policies sucked, and probably will continue to. That's no secret, but chances are that at the time there was nothing to pick up on.
Did you even read the posts? I said:
"Benoit's brain was damaged as a result of his in ring activity with WWE. Why do you think that is? Might have been because everyone loved what he did.".
You then went on some massive tirade about how it was all McMahon's fault. I then said:
"Huh? My whole point there was that he did it wrestling, and he did. His brain damage was a result of WWE's carelessness and his own personal carelessness in the ring while WRESTLING. Medical studies show he was the equivelent of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient. From WRESTLING. WRESTLING IN WWE.
Why go on about McMahon again? He has nothing to do with this point."..
My whole point was to counter the utterly retarded claim that there's no wrestling in WWE, and that McMahon is somehow Satan incarnate. I never brought him up, he has nothing to do with my initial point, you did.
You consider saying silly things like repeating "Austin is your idol!" and INSISTING that I am a sucker who sucks everything up, is mature? I have told you the exact opposite, YOU refuse to accept it cos it would take away your entire debate.
Then there's the issue of you continually insisting that I think Austin is some amazing wrestler, I've clarified I don't.
Oh, you dodged my question by the way:
Austin IS an entertainer, but so is Britney Spears. They are not just "Enterainers" as their job, they are referred to by the specific brand of entertainment they are involved in.
For the sake of occupational clarification, Britney Spears is referred to as a musician. What's Austin referred to as, and why?
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
Again, you agree after the fact is brought up.
Because you said again and again...."WWE is entertainment" What you need to clarify in your noodle is that there is no wrestling in WWE. There are "Wrestlers" (along with entertainers like Austin) performing acts.
Yes, I don't have a problem giving you my opinion like an adult. You on the other hand take it as an sacriliege to Steve Austin. You've been doing since our first exchange.
Then stop arguing....simple.
Just like you been doing it with my own set of questions.
An actor and comedian...thanks to Celebrety Death match. What you got next?
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Nov 9th, 2007 06:10 PM
