What circumstances? Venom beat him twice in "trial", once in "Venom vs Carnage" in "maximum Carnage" several times (Carnage had a problem with his head but he always does and it didnt effect his strength while Brock was barely standing at thye beginning of the fight. In "triumphant" Carnage didn't even try to fight him because he was too affraid of him.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Dude, in Trial, Venom had the aid of Spider-Man and Daredevil. I could hardly call that "beating Carnage with his bare hands" under his own power.
Sure, Carnage is a nut and a psychopathic killer, but he's never been psychologically effected in this way, and it is clear in the last issue that his heightened schizophrenia had definitely contributed to his lack of fight against Venom.
To try to say that Venom was "barely standing at the beginning" is a very poor argument. Yeah, he might have still been weakened from his capture, but Venom had since his escape in the 12th issue to heal, and it's pretty obvious that by the time Maximum Carnage had ended that Venom had mostly if not completely recovered from Carnage's torture.
The Carnage symbiote was sort of compelled to go to Venom. Venom didn't have to do anything. After he consumed the Carnage symbiote, Venom still hadn't completely absorbed it as it seemed to be trying to escape from the Venom symbiote at the end of the issue these events took place. Why any of this happened was never actually explained nor was it explained as to how the Carnage symbiote, if it was the same symbiote, ever got to the Negative Zone later on. The writers at the time wrote poorly and neglected important details that left some of these stories hollow.
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Last edited by Phoenix2001 on Oct 19th, 2009 at 05:07 PM
In trial Spider-man and Daredevil werent helping him, they both were trying to STOP him. He beat Carnage twice. Without any help from Matt or Parker. Spider-man actually tried to protect Carnage but Brock punched him across the room with one hand while strangleing Carnage with the other. Daredevil had to reason with him and Brock spared his life.
You're making an assumption that he had the time to heal that's why my argument is poor? SECONDS before Carnage attacked Venom collapsed on his knees while trying to throw a punch at Spider-man. He could barely stand because of the torture, let alone fight. Yet you're saying that he was in perfect shape few seconds later thus he had an advantage over Carnage who was physically fine, but a little crazier than usually?
Why is it even a question? Carnage pretty much confirmed that Venom's his superior. And that was before the upgrade.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Last edited by SamZED on Oct 20th, 2009 at 01:35 PM
At the end of Max Car Venom sacrifices himself to destroy carnage! If venom knew that he was stronger than Carnage he would have just kept beating him down. Venom also agrees with Carnage that Carnage is stronger but Venom is craftier in that same issue. In Carnage unleashed Venom states the Carnage has grown even stronger than the last time they met and that it must have to with his mutated symbiote! as for venom on trial, you are 100% correct ..... however this arc was terribly written, there was no explanation why venom beat the hell out of carnage so easily. As for venom's upgrade..... this is complete BS the whole venom shiver, run, and twist were all forgotten stories that had no impact on anything to do with Marvel. It's the same crap with carnage loosing his symbiote to venom, then finding a new one only to have the origional give birth to toxin. We can't state who is stronger by comparing what happens in individual issues because every writer is going to write the characters differently. Also I would like to say that when ever Venom and Carnage fight, Venom is the good guy and Carnage is the bad guy, now I may be new at this but I've noticed that in comics especially when the title is named after the hero, ie: spider-man or Batman, THE HERO ALWAYS WINS IN THE END!
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