Pretty much. Akira Toriyama's original manga is canon, anything extra in that anime that wasn't in the manga is non-canon. That includes anime, movies and GT.
Instant Transmission is a teleportation technique, not his actual movements. (Eg teleporting Cell)
Cell's statement was hyperbole, he just got his power boost and was unknown even to himself what he could do. Remember how he confirmed that SSJ2 Gohan was nothing compared to him, only to have Gohan wreck Cell? And we're meant to believe his words? I mean this 'solar system' blast only shook the Earth and made a small crater.
Broly is non-canon. Buu has never destroyed a universe, nor a galaxy. He destroys planets one at a time as shown in the manga and the anime. Kai said Buu can destroy the universe in a chain-reaction event.
Lets put it this way; a character would have to be a million times stronger then Freeza to even blow up the sun.. case and point.
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On the other hand, DS went from Earth to the center of the Galaxy in 4 years, AKA 6500x the speed of light. He's also defeated 'confirmed' galaxy busters, infact people that he can easily beat can destroy a large solar system just by flying past one. DS also accidentally blew up a galaxy as a -side effect- of a battle.
Finally he can't be killed if his body, spirit and soul aren't destroyed at the same time as well as his eternal atoms in 3 different dimensions.
Can Goku do a galaxy level attack? Can he crush souls? Can he waste someones spirit? Can he travel through dimensions? And can he do all of this at the same time? No no-no, no and no.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Can Goku do a galaxy level attack? Can he crush souls? Can he waste someones spirit? Can he travel through dimensions? And can he do all of this at the same time? No no-no, no and no. [/B][/QUOTE]
yes yes yes yes yes
So you dont want to post a feat of galactic power? Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
And do you know the difference between having a power level of 100 vs someone having a power level of 1000 of 1 million. We know that the higher your power level is the more power a person can generate. This was proven on more than one occasion. Look at the Goku and Piccolo fight. Goku had a power level of 350 and Piccolo had a power level of 300 and Goku blast over powered his. Look at the Vegeta and Goku fight... Goku blast over powered Vegetas blast and that all due to person "A" being more powerful than person "B". If Roshi can destroy a planet at 100 and the small difference in power between Goku and Piccolo lead to Goku over powering Piccolos blast, imagine what Frieza could do.
As for your comment about Freiza being a universal threat... Goku actually stated that if he didn't stop Frieza, Frieza would "destroy" the universe.
As for your snake way comment... Goku is the type that likes to conserve energy... was it stated that he went all out during arrival through snake way? Do you know the difference between travel speed and reflexes. Goku and Piccolo was moving faster than Roshi eyes could see and this was during the time Goku was a child and Roshi has caught MULTIPLE of bullets easily. Goku with his size vs a small bullet size had to be moving at crazy speeds... speeds far greater than a bullet/multiple bullets (again, think about his size vs a bullet size). Goku speed increased exponentially after this (when Roshi was unable to see him).
Him outracing solar energy shouldn't even be questionable... especially when we have him being in the heart of an exploding atomic bomb outracing it without too much trouble.
even broly has enough power to destroy a galaxy.goku can do all of them with instant transmission and universal spirit bomob also in the end shenron putted the dragonballs in gokus body that wuld give him amazng power just like syn shenron he was strong but when he had all the dragonball he overcamed goku ssj4 and vegeta ssj4 easily also omega is stronger than d.s. cuz he is an universal buster
First off Roshi blew up -the moon-, 1/50th the size of the Earth. 10,000 is then minimal confirmed planet busting so using that. I'll give a number and you tell me is someones power can go that high; The Milky Way/our Galaxy is about.. 30 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 [3x10^40] times larger than the Earth, thats like the difference between a gain of sand and the Sun. Do you really think someone is that much times stronger than a 10,000 PL planet buster?
1. Was it in the manga?
2. You're assuming they mean one-shotting and not an eventual destruction.
http://www.mangareader.net/105-2854...hapter-205.html http://www.mangareader.net/105-2854...hapter-205.html
He used up near most of his power flying as far as he could. And remember, it'd take 3 seconds at light speed. Yeah I don't think Goku wanted to rush either, its not like he needed to get urgent training to save his friends, family and planet from the two saiyans who will be arriving in less than a year...
...Dude bullet timing is not that impressive in fiction. Seriously. It gives Roshi Mach 1 reactions, getting relativistic speeds from that is makes no sense at all.
Thing is you can't actually prove that he did the movement after the flash was launched and before it reached him. This is what we know; Tien announces the flash, does the flash, goku has the specs by the time Tien gets there. Im gonna need more than your assumption. Even if we use the anime we can see that Goku moves after everyones been blinded.
Can you guys show me anyone destroying a galaxy? ''Ok, then show me Goku being able to effect a soul, a spirit and travel through 3 dimensions at the same time.''
Broly is non-canon so Im not even going to get into that. GT is also non-canon so we'll drop that too but just to note they said Omegas power will eventually consume the universe, thats not one-shotting.
Next is that the spirit bomb takes an insane amount of time to form, and thats even if he can find a way to contact anything else besides the nature around him (he has no way to talk to the people of earth or the beings in the universe) like with the freeza one. Ya really think DS is gonna sit there and wait for Goku to charge up?
Listen up boys and girls. DS is massivly FTL, can annihilate a large galaxy by walking past it and can't be defeated by any means availably to the whole Dragon Ball verse.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
I know it was a moon... lol... typo. Why do you keep saying it takes a power level of 10000 when we have Piccolo shooting a casual blast destroying the moon with ease and he was at a power level of 350?
I agree with the GT stuff... I don't even know why you are debating against him in regards to that... you have heart.
Roshi didn't bullet time for the bullet catching feat... he was clearly faster than the bullets.
I know how big a Galaxy is but it would be insane to think someone at Frieza levels wouldn't cause massive damage to one but I do agree, he isn't one shotting one but in order for Goku to claim him as a Universal destroyer... he "had" to consider Frieza extremely powerful.
I can't show you anyone destroying a Galaxy in DBZ because no one ever attempted to. Cell did claim that he had enough power to shed a solar system and there were people out there that can sense power levels when he said this and they weren't in any denial that he couldn't. This statement was said during the begining of his initial attack and the power of the blast grew after that statement. That was a statement that was placed in the manga from Akira himself as a discription of power and I see no reason for him to write Cell lying about how powerful his blast was/is.
Catching MUTIPLES of bullets at once is faster than Mach 1... if it was a single bullet, you would have an argument.
I already told you that Goku is losing this fight... that's not my argument.
Goku reflexes is far faster than his flight and this has been proven on numerous of occassions but since you want to refer to flight... Goku covered planet Namek in seconds and planet Namek is twice the size of Earth.
Tien does the solar flare... Goku runs off while the attack is going off, grab Roshi glasses and run back to his spot and put the glasses on before the blast touch him. That's light speed.
As for Goku outracing a Nuke... it was during the time Frieza had him in a ball of paralyzing light and was kicking him around. Frieza tells Goku that if the ball touch anything but him, it will explode. Frieza then kicks the ball while again, Goku is in it. The ball hits the ground (while Goku is in it) and Goku outruns the blast... that is true light speed buddy.
heh. I did a power-scaling that had blasts being on par with a galactic scale.
So, yeah, someone could be that much stronger.
We had Goku go from a PL of 460 something all the way up to 150,000,000 and that wasn't even a strong version of the SSJ. What's the difference in power?
Try 326,086 times difference in power. Another ascension? And another? And another? And another?
Exponential growth really does some fancy stuff to numbers.
Thats still classed as bullet timeing and still gives him supersonic speeds. If you post the link/scan I can get a more accurate view of his speed.
Of course Goku considered him a powerful threat, he was the strongest being known to him at the time. And what does Goku know about universe busting strength when he's just discovered a planet buster? At best you can argue large Star level for end of Z characters.
''Cell's statement was hyperbole, he just got his power boost and was unknown even to himself what he could do. Remember how he confirmed that SSJ2 Gohan was nothing compared to him, only to have Gohan wreck Cell? And we're meant to believe his words? I mean this 'solar system' blast only shook the Earth and made a small crater.''
Ah goodie.
Technically the Solar Flare thing was movement speed, movement speed like Snake Way is. *beep* Would need to cover half the planet in 0.1 seconds to be SoL, that I recall he didnt have to cross half of Namek.
Actually seeing as Roshi and the rest in the stadium are already blinded it kinda proves that Goku moved after the Solar Flare.
Wait Freeza's attack is a nuke now? Did he even outrun it? Btw a nuke blast wave is only 400mph.
Goku's PL at Raditz was 950, his power increased by 157894.737x by the end of the Freeza saga as a SSJ, aka 1/3 main sagas to gain that much. He did the same amount of training for the Cell saga as he did for the saiyan+freeza saga so lets put it to a further 200kx. He increased less than that from end of Cell to start of Buu if we assume he's somewhere above SSJ2 Cell saga Gohan (As Goku was > Gohan who was < Cell Gohan), then add SSJ3.
-Assumptions-
950*157,894.737 for the Freeza saga = 150,000,000
150,000,000*200,000 for the Cell saga = 30,000,000,000,000
3x10^13*1,000 for SSJ2 in the Buu saga = 3x10^16
3x10^16*100 for end of Buu saga with SSJ3 = 3x10^18
Assuming that it would actually work like this, EoS SSJ3 Goku would still need to be 13,333,333,333,333,333,333,333[1.3x10^20]x stronger to galaxy bust with this method. That means even large stars would be out of reach.
[For what its worth this way would put SSJ4 Gogeta at 1x10^25]
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
I don't get your statement about Frieza being powerful. You can't take away from the fact that Frieza was classified as a universal threat because that was Gokus most powerful foe. Goku fought Raditz AND Vegeta before this and didn't put either of them on the scale that he put Frieza and both were the strongest he has fought during that time as well.
WTF... the only reason Cell didn't know Gohun was stronger than him was due to the fact that Cell "could not read power levels". That has NOTHING to do wit Cell knowing "how powerful he is". Also, your argument about Cell not adjusting to his new power level "again" doesn't make any sense since we have Cell going through transformations and coping with his powers almost immediately. Its not as if Cell went through some type of training after each transformation. Cell again, knew EXACTLY how powerful he was.
Goku dodging the solar flare was more of a reflex thing and if Goku ran off while the blast was on him, he would have been blinded. Tien does the blast, Goku outpace the blast before it touches him and Goku was ok afterwards.
So a nuke explodes at 400 mps? So if you are in the center of a nuke... the heart of it, you only need 400 mps speed to outpace it?
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Apr 21st, 2011 04:04 PM
