I never said they can't destroy a planet. They can just not without disrupting the core. And Gokou and Freeza's fought on a planet about to explode after Freeza disrupted the core. When did them fighting have anything to do with destroying it?
Gokou also had to use a move that made him nearly unable to move to block that attack from Vegeta. Vegeta didn't have anything to power him up with like Gokou and his Kaioken or he would have won. Well he could have went Ape then tried to destroy Earth that may have been a smarter idea. I'd like to have seen Gokou try to block a Giant Ape Vegeta's Galic Gun. Course the planet would have been destroyed and everything so.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Where are you getting this destroying earth crust stuff from. How did master roshi destroy the moon, are you using that same excuse for that argument. When I was talking about the destruction of a planet when goku and frieza was fighting, Im referring to the time that frieza punched goku in the ocean and powered up a huge circler beam and threw it at goku while he was in the ocean. Goku caught the beam and punched it out of orbit (another out of orbit punched) and the beam hit a nearby planet destroying the planets and its moon. I would love to show you it but again I dont have a scanner but I can show you in the anime to give you a better idea but you all ignore things like that.
That blast was meant to kill goku. He knew that any other attack that he would have thrown at goku he would have countered it. He specifically told goku that if he dodged the blast it would destroy the planet. So I really dont get the point that you are trying to prove.
Creshok, I feel so stupid right now, I guess because Im tremendously sleepy. I thought that you were referring to emporerpants, like I hacked his acct or something. I really need to go to bed. You all have a good night, nice debating with you. I have nodded off like 5 times.
Again sorry about that, he finally got off the tv and Im going to play one quick game online and then Im gone.
You all must be overseas or something because its 2am in the morning where Im at.
There's been a lot of confusion of what the various strength levels can do.
Class 40 = 784,000 J Or able to launch a man at 125 m/s. That's a momentum of 125,000 Kg m/s. A bullet from a rifle only has a momentum of 1.5.
While admittedly in a normal human lifting strength isn't the same as punching strength. As Goku powers his physical feats with Ki he should have the same level of power to draw from both. Considering 'Mountains' in DBZ are usually no more than 20 metres across that seems a fair estimate. Especially if the character uses flight to add more power to their punches.
So yes big strength feats can very easily be achieved withe below class 100 strength.
these scans indicate several reasons WHY the clones aren't comparable to the original... they actually say the army is flawed, that the cloning process wasn't entirely successful... an army of doomsday's would annihilate pretty much anyone, yet superman deep fries them all with one blast of heat vision... the original doomsday has withstood darkseid's omega beams, which dwarf clark's hv in destructive power...
it doesn't count, as its batman. its like when captain america can smack down the hulk, even though someone ten times stronger and more skilled than him has trouble... its called jobber aura.
It’s been stated in the Manga that Goku doesn’t age because of his training.
“And um....Gokou would have to get a lot more durable to even attempt to hold a black hole not to mention stronger than he could probably get in a year when in about 50 years or so he couldn't even go over 15 tons.”
Since when can’t Ghoku lift 15 tons, he pushed himself 10 feet under 100 G0’s with one hand, so that’s like pushing 6 tons ten feet in no space. Goku could easily lift 40 tons, he just couldn’t move around with 40 tons on his back. Goku can get more durable by going up Grades in Super Saiyan, SSJ2 is like a speed power up, USSJ is a strength and raw power up.
“e always wore weights while training, Piccolo always wears weights, and in the Buu Saga he is specifically training with weights to go back to fight in the tournament on Earth.”
Bah hahahahahaha! Yeah, because, you know, wearing weighted clothes is like strength training for Goku….. I can’t keep a straight face.
“Thats like saying if I trained specifically on being able to take a bullet to the head, I'd be able to”
If you could turn Super Saiyan, than you would. USSJ also makes the Saiyan more durable, just like Super Saiyan.
“fixed. as you pointed out, each DAY superman spends in the sun is a YEAR Goku spends in the time chamber.. Three days later for Superman is three years later for Goku.”
It was stated in the Manga that Goku wouldn’t grow Weaker with age if he kept training, and that he could still grow stronger. I can’t find it, but I know it’s in there.
But there IS a point where if Goku becomes strong enough he won’t be agile, but I’m just giving Superman and Goku 1 days prep, that way they both do what the want, and Goku wins because he has more time.
Goku didn’t even need the full year to surpass Vegeta, who stayed in there longer than a year. Trust me, Gohan and Goku would only need a year to get Goku to a level that Superman can’t match by staying in the sun for a day.
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Last edited by Combat_Guru on Apr 11th, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Um...Vegeta states that they age slower and stay in their prime longer than humans...Not once do I ever remember anybody saying they were immortal.
If Gokou could easily lift 40 tons he'd not have been pulled down by the weight he was ready for when South Kai put 40 tons on him. He'd have been able to lift the 10 ton weights on each arm with ease.
Vegeta isn't Superman. And you're still clinging onto what if's. Gokou has pretty much lost if he has to have special conditions to win. Then there is still the fact you haven't proven he can get so much stronger in just a year.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Wow, way too many pages since my last post. Someone give me a quick summary of who I'm arguing against and what their arguments are.
EDIT: After reviewing more of Combat_Guru's posts, I can see that his major arguments are -
1. Simply pulling numbers out of thin air with no source.
2. Claiming Goku can do anything simply by training for it, which is not only a no-limits fallacy, but isn't specified in the OP (they are both set up to fight in their current versions, well Goku at the end of the manga since it stopped). You can't just speculate on what new powers they could acquire. I could speculate that Superman might develop the power to destroy the universe and warp reality, but that's just speculation and worthless.
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Last edited by Endless Mike on Apr 11th, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Goku can take a gravity chamber capsule in with him.
Training under increasing G's makes a Saiyan, immensely more powerful, training for a year makes a Super Saiyan even more immense, put them together, and Goku, the King of Training will always be able to become strong enough.
Goku knew exactly what he was doing with Cell, by making Gohan stronger than he was he could surprise Cell, and defeat him.
And Goku would have been strong enough in the Cell Saga to beat Superman had he fought some one with Superman's powers, his advantage over Cell created a disadvantage on Superman.
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Last edited by Combat_Guru on Apr 11th, 2008 at 11:22 PM
So since you're claiming he needs to have a bunch of training to stand a chance, I guess you concede that without speculating on him possibly getting stronger than he has actually shown himself to be, he would lose?
Gohan was gifted. As soon as Gohan was able to transform in SSJ1 Goku and everyone else stated that Gohan's power level in SSJ1 is higher then all other Z fighter at their best.
Thats why Goku wanted Gohan to fight Cell. He knew that Gohan had a secret even though he couldn't unleash it!!!
If Goku hadn't fought some one with Cell's powers, than he would be able to beat Superman. Goku dropped hurting bombs for more evasive powers, this fight wouldn't be fair with no prep, thats why I used movie Superman in the first place, whom Super Saiyan Goku destroys.
Prep wasn't even given as a option in this battle though. And Superman has a lot more options to go with than Gokou does when prep comes in. Even then why would he have a day of prep?
That doesn't even make sense. If Cell hadn't of come he'd be able to beat Superman? Gokou wouldn't even be as strong as he was if Cell had never shown up much less strong enough to beat Superman.
And Movie Superman isn't canon so it doesn't really matter since he isn't being used.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
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Apr 11th, 2008 05:39 AM
