This does sound like a proper scenario and one that I can envision.
This I will have to disagree with considering Superman has flown through disintegration beams with ease or can even vibrate through them. In a sense, cosmic energy blasts may actually empower Superman similar to the evilstar fight.
There is the part that I'm having trouble with as nothing has shown Surfer to react to that type of speed in battle.
The laser dodging feats are relatively weaksauce because it's something we see human level characters do all the time. Additionally if something so ambiguous can be used then Supes far ftl with WW to the sun and back is fair game.
I totally understand bro. It's like me pitting Dark Schneider vs Supes.
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Really this debate should have been over a long time ago. evn the superman fans readily admit that his only way of beating SS is physical combat. Yet they choose to blatantly ignore the fact that SS has very high level defeneses against such attacks which are his already ultra high durability and his forcfeields. And it is is very obvious that SS can beat supes a numerous amount of other ways. I evn posted a scan of supes himself saying how dangerous draining the enrgy from his cells would be. This is something SS can easily accomplish. Now ive noticed a nice bit of manipulation of the "in character rule " by some. These people believe that SS creating a forcefield or using his exotic powers would be outof character but that superman attacking him at light speed isnt. This is utter nonsense. The fact is that SS is more likely to use his exotic powers to end the match quickly do to his personality than supes is to hit SS with millions of punches at light speed plus. This is assumption is made without anyone even establishing the fact that supes can and has attacked anyone at such speeds in the first place!
Personally i believe the in character rule should be applied fairly to both sides. SS using tactics he has actually been shown to use in comics is in no way out of character. In the same vein superman using his speed in this fight is not out of character either because he has been shown to use it in comics. Howver there has to be a blance superman attacking SS with millions of punches in a micro second is as out of character as SS creating a blackhole in supes retina. Supes has never evn come close to performing this and so i have no idea why its evn being referenced.
With that being said SS combat speed and skills wont evn come into play in this fight. In this area supes is undoubtedly superior but it really does not matter as SS truckload of other powers will easily negate this advantage of supes. As for the question of who is more powerful that keeps coming up. It is certainly SS. Indeed being more versatile does not make u more powerful, but being among the top dogs in almost evry single aspect of ur powers coupled with having alot more useful powers than ur counter part( versatility) makes u undoubtedly more powerful.
If this happened in a comic SS could because of the way the fight would be writtten out. However i think that equating the way it is written in a comic with the in character rule as some are doing is wrong. This creates scenarios of SS simply blasting supes and not doing anything else. This directly contradicts the PIS rule. As i said the in character rule creates a balance between a character fighting smartly and a character doing things that r outrageous. When u take evrything into consideration, SS is still the clear winner.
__________________
All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
I got yah.. lets stop dissecting that scan..lol
Here's the thing dough, the scan being debated is just among the few of Surfer w/ ftl reflex/reaction feat and not everything is based on this lone scan to prove its in him to parry/avoid instant ftl blitziz. I think pared that w/ high durability and shield manipulation he can go toe to toe with Supes for a time .. Win, highly unlikely less he plays the weakness.
When it comes to battle speed Supes >>>Surfer and i don't think anybody is disputing that..
This sounds like something which could be more writer-determined than anything else.
As an example to the contrary: that "infamous" scan showing Surfer breaking from his bonds before another nanosecond can pass implies he's thinking (as well as acting) at nanospeeds. Also, when he's analyzing the teleportation trajectory (another example). It may not be h2h, but again, h2h is generally not Surfer's typical response.
Does Batman (eg) really dodge the beam already in flight, or has he just anticipated his attacker's aim? Personally, I scoff at pretty much anyone dodging a light beam (even if they have FTL reflexes) for this simple reason: how can one see the beam coming if the "warning light" is traveling no faster than the laser beam itself? For a character to be able to do this implies some sort of FTL perception (psychic? tachyons?) as well as FTL reflexes.
Dark Schneider. Definitely one of the best monikers around.
__________________
Shinier than a speeding bullet.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Really i dont know where u r getting that SS has only using forcefields rarely. I showed like ten examples of SS using forcefields of different shapes,sizes and compositions and creating them at extremely high speeds.. U say that i should check SS comics and i will see its true but frankly most of the comics i have are SS comics ( quite a lot actually) and the occurrence is not as rare as u claim it is. I even have more scans of SS using forcefields and i can post them if u like. Further supes has certainly not used his speed in battle evn close to 10 times more than SS has used forcefields. The reasons that people who dont even read comics know that supes has superspeed are that it is in his bio and evry description of superman and also that he is the most popular superhero in existence and hence his powers such as "superspeed superstrength and superhearing etc.( emphasis on the super) are common knowledge. Him using it in battle has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Now regarding ur question of SS using his fields in battle, indeed he has not used it as frequently as some of his other powers such as cosmic blasts. Howver this is mostly due to his being able to rely on his personal durability and PIS. Further i dont dispute supes ability to blitz SS or use his speed in battle. What i am challeneging is his ability to use it to the degree which will cause a danger to SS. that is the claims of him being able to hurt SS badly before SS can create a forcefield considering the speed at which ss can create forcefields.
LAstly evn in the unlikely event that supes hits him first what makes u think that the fight is over for SS? One superman punch no matter how hard is NEVER going to put down SS and im sorry 2 say it but anyone that thinks it will is loony. Supes wont be able to get enough hits on SS for to considerably damage him b4 his forcefield comes up that is if he can evn get in any hit. Further using forcfields is not out of SS character just like supes using his speed( to a reasonable degree) is not out of his character either. This forum is PIS free so both are valid tactics.
__________________
All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
Gender: Male Location: Hiding from The Doctor, shhhh.....
Darkseid backhanded Supes when he tried a blitz. After that, DS was dominating, until Wondy reflected the OE back at his face. After that, sun-amp, and 'boom-tube' to the source.
You're lucky we're not using that for a speed feat.
Avlon: Wouldn't most incarnations of Darsh be spite against Supes?
__________________ Wanted: New sig. Something crazy, zany, and slightly evil. Will give sig credit to whoever's I sport.
I never suggested that it was done with malicious intent. I never said that you and quan did the same thing for the same reason, I was comparing the effect(basing an argument on a low showing) not the cause.
That scan had nothing to do with a comparison between between Supes and Surfer's speed, it was brought up as a specific contradiction of the BP/Surfer encounter. That's why I specifically said...
Now I know you're going to say something to the effect of...
...but may I ask who? Dodging a bullet after it's fired is considered a major feat for a street level character and an impressive feat for a low meta character, so who are all these regular humans that have scans of their dodging/reacting to energy blast and lasers after they're fired floating around?
If kept in character the way you're speaking of(which happens to be incorrect by forum standards), speed's not going to be a factor at all because Supes isn't going to use any. And since Surfer's blast have more impressive showings of power output(like a single blast creating a blackhole), I'd say that the scenario favors him since the two have comparable durability and Surfer's blast will let him keep distance between the two.
People don't debate T-Vo because it's too ill-defined to do so effectively. It would be like bringing up She-Hulk's 4th wall combat options in a serious debate. Besides, I think that if Supes pulls himself and someone else onto the astral plane he's committed technically a self BFR because he voluntarily left the battlefield.
Meh...
__________________
Last edited by darthgoober on Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:29 PM
Wait. one freaking minute? How in the hell someone can compare surfer reacting, blocking, and etc to superman doing shit like building stuff, attacking, running at superspeed is just like wow. NOT EVEN CLOSE to being comparible. A human being can dodge a lightning bolt. and surfer has energy powers. he should be able to figure out where a bolt of energy is comign from and defend himself from it. it after all cannot change course or alter it's tactics.
Gender: Male Location: Hiding from The Doctor, shhhh.....
I''m not going to believe Surfer has anywhere near the reaction speed that Supes does when Superman can build a city with his bare hands in two panels. Surfer has no coordination feats on that level.
__________________ Wanted: New sig. Something crazy, zany, and slightly evil. Will give sig credit to whoever's I sport.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
In marvel holiday special 96, surfer searches the entire 616 universe in at worst a few hours. We cant really determine the time but there was a party going on and SS left and came back while the party was still going on so....
__________________
All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
A one time thing? Well then it's a good thing that we have plenty of instances of Surfer dodging LOTS of blast simultaneously... (please log in to view the image)
And anyway, Supes doesn't have that many tactics to use. His only real shot at winning comes from bring the fight up close and personal and the scans I showed proved that Surfer can react to Supes before it gets in close. If nothing else all he has to do is raise a force field or get in the first shot with a bullrush(since the CA scan concretely showed Surfer charging into combat in less than a microsecond and Surfer's bullrushing speed trumps Supes's).
Yeah. Superman did blitz DS. Whom we all know has uber reaction times. The only thing was DS was really just too tuff for the blitz to mean anything. And lasers aren't a being. as I said, Surfer is an energy caster and wielder. He can sense lasers. he doesn't have to "react" to them. he can easily navigate thru a field of lasers. Superman on the other hand is faster than lasers and can think. A laser won't go around a shield or pummel it with thousands of planet cruching punches. A laser won't vibrate to bypass an energy barrier. All things superman can do at super speed. I've never seen surfer scan a being from another cosmos for a weakness in such a small time. Surfer only begins to beat superman with certainty after a few rounds with supers.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
When has it evr even been mentioned that SS somehow uses his ability to " sense enrgy" to dodge light speed lasers? What kind of laughable statement is this. Nonsense. Also going round a shield? A few pages back i posted SS creating forcfields entirely around objects and beings. including himself. that is more nonsense. Further saying that superman can use thousands of planet crunching punches wont in no way helps his argument because there is no way in hell dat supes will get that many hits in before SS can attack himself. Further superman vibrating his molecules would hardly be a bother for SS who has complete control pof his molecules and can do d exact same thing. Really supes has got nothing.
__________________
All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
KMC Community Forums
Aug 6th, 2008 05:19 PM
