1. Lich King is an unknown. An unknown with a limit. The limit being that he is ONE of the most powerful on Azeroth. Archimonde walked uneffected trough the entire land. Archimonde who more or less annhiliated Malorne.
2. Pyron was beat up by a vampire. Ganondorf gets beat up by a teenager (Repeatingly). A gigantic dinosaur gets beat up by a plummer. A powerful dark magiciant gets beat up by a baby dragon. Phoenix is killed by Wolverine.
It is called plot advancement events and in a lot of the cases, the defeat of a character does not mean they have met their match.
3. Illidan has nothing to do with this discussion. When someone says "One of the most powerful beings" I think top 5, which would make Lich King aspect level. If they had said "THE most powerful being", then I would not bother arguing this point, because that means he can actually match the most powerful Burning Legion member. But since he is one of a number, he should not be assumed to be one of the most powerful beings in the universe.
4. Nozdormu could never beat Archimonde heads up. Nozdormu may be the undying one, but simply because he will more or less never die, does not mean he can kill someone of Archimonde's level. If anyone is going to stand a chance against Archimonde, it is Neltharion or possibly Malygos. Although I am not saying they would win, but if anyone would put up a fight it would be them.
5. Like I said in point 2, it is called plot advancement events. You are saying that the Pit Lord leader that slaughtered thousands, is rated a top member of the Burning Legion and walked by his own towards the front lines of the Azeroth defense (Killing thousands) is killed by a swing of an axe, simply because Grom is better? For a starter, Mannoroth is better than Grom in ALL areas. He is faster, stronger, more endurant, more bloodthirsty, more intellectual, more magical and larger than Hellscream. Mannoroth is the demon who cause earthquakes by stomping in the ground.
Mannoroth did not die because he was a garbage warrior. He died because the story of Warcraft had to move on. If Mannoroth would have been like he is in the books, Thrall and Grom would have been squished carrots (Green carrots). The horde would never have lasted, the Warsong clan would have died and World of Warcraft would have never been born. Mannoroth HAD to die.
I appreciate that you are a dick. That way I can elaborate my view better
(Edited a point, because proof that I do not have would have been demanded)
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Perspective
Last edited by Rapidash on Dec 28th, 2007 at 12:39 PM
you call him a bug compared to this magic power, can you show me an official source that states it is so much more powerful than anything malorn can conjure up? also note that this power is on Azeroth, the power it comes from is Azeroth, which is if its among the most powerful forces, Lich King is likely to be ranked among it.
Cenarius, regardless of PIS, was still defeated and killed by fel Orcs, i dont know how many, so if someone can state it, id like to see, but we know Hellscream must have taken the killing blow
who can compare? many things are still left on Azeroth, as weakened as they are, whats left of the old Gods are still on Azeroth, technically Elune is sitll on Azeroth (one of the targets Lich King wants to destroy) as well as many powerful things are still on azeroth, i highly doubt hes aspect level, first he is deserving of the God title but that doesnt mean much, i just thot id menstion it, but he has power to cause worldwide catasrophie, greater than anything the Burning legion have done to the world so far, he has covered the world in a shadow and even created his own race, the undead. And thats in the weakened form inside the throne. Now he has a body.
i doubt it, Killy or Archi would fall imo to Nozmordu, maybe even the magic dragon, cant remember his name.
Archimonde who is still bones on mount hyjal. They all have limits and since we have not seen Lich Kings current powers or what blizzard are brewing up for him theres no point in playing the guessing game
2. technically Pyron was not truly beaten up, his true defeat/death is when he is absorbed, altho so what? your declassing Demitri because hes a vampire, because hes not as big as pyron he has to be put on the same list as Link and Mario for CIS? not imo, Pyrons a big guy but Demitri has survived blasts from Belial and has tonnes of magical firepower
not neccerily....for example i think V2D said that Demitri or Pyron called the other a good fight or match before Pyorn was destroyed
3. one of the strongest on azeroth, i still think the Old Gods are worthy of menstion even after their fall, and considering hes planning to destroy the aspects, i dont see him any less than above their level if hes going to fight them according to Blizzard.
4. I think Alex, Malygos, nelth or Noz could take on Archimonde, Noz is still a masive and powerful dragon, he would crush Archimonde while Archi is stuck in time and could play the battle as many times as he likes until he gets an outcome he wishes
Since you quoted me twice, I will just number all your paragraphs to make it more easy for me. Starting from top:
1. The attack that killed Archimonde was nature herself, manifested as a mighty blast. Malorne is a servant of nature, just like all other druids. Not even the mightiest of druids could bring up a glimps of the power that nature herself can push in a blast.
2. He was defeated by Grom. It is strong fact, so I will not say anything more about this.
3. Elune exists on Azeroth, yes. The fact remains that Blizzard said "One of" and not "The" concerning Lich King. In addition, the true power of Elune has never been shown. She is a discreete deity, and just like Lich King, for the time being her powers are to a large extent unknown.
3- 2. What other "many powerful beings?" Which Azerothian beings are above the aspects? If you bring up five beings that is more powerful than the aspects, I will drop the entire Lich King arguing.
3- 3. Lich King did NOT create the undead race. I know you have not read the books, and I will not rub it in, but can you please at least TRY to get some fact straight before stating them? The Burning Legion (Almost only using Archimonde and Mannoroth) nearly annhiliated Azeroth (This was while Cenarius, Malorne, Malfurion and more were active). Lich King has never even been near to annhiliate Azeroth.
4. You are basing this on..... what? Why would either of the two fall by the aspects?
5. What guessing game? Despite the fact that his powers are unknown, he has a limit. He is limited to a more certain point than Kil'Jaeden. He is ONE of the most powerful beings on Azeroth. A pretty strong limit, in my opinion.
6. I am just saying, powerful character has been defeated by less powerful characters before. At many occasions.
7. The Old Gods? The Old God. C'thun is a whimp in his current state. Or are you considering him his prime? If you think Lich King is the most powerful character on Azeroth, and you think C'thun is at his prime, you are saying that Lich King is a match for the Pantheon. Is that what you are saying?
8. Nozdormu would be able to repeat the event, but to what good? He would lose every time. He may be the timeless one, but even the timeless one will lose patience. Also, Nozdormu would never take such action. He would never manipulate time to win a battle he was not meant to fight.
You are not mentioning Ysera. Why? Archimonde's only true harm was trough nature. She would do a better job than Alexstrasza and Nozdormu for sure.
1. nature herself, i didnt know Nature herself caused that blast? show me where? Malfurion summoned the blast through the horn
3. their unkown but shes looked upon as powerful for sure, she could aslo be "one of" and lich king could easily be on her level
i think even the weakened old gods can defeat a good few aspects, some of the weaker ones, maybe the dream weaver would be defeated by C'thun in his current state
3. Who created the undead race? tell me if you know the one who did, who created undead on Azeroth before the king?
Illidan also nearly annhilated Azeroth with the eye of sarg, using various objects ime quite sure most can destroy azeroth but they have never succeeded wheras Lich king has created untold troubles
4. Alex by strength alone, shes the largest of the aspects is she not and has incredible life magics but overall, shes huge, shed prob take him out with pure strength alone
malygos magic would thwart them all, he can make beings forget their magic with a breath
and yes, Lich Kings plague is devastating Azeroth and it still is, the madness and damage he has done is goign beyond anything of the legion, theres undead basically everywhere
5. Kiljaeden? , he has not been considered the most powerful of anything apart from the Erdedar, he may be powerful but i still dont see his ranking high enough to take on anyone on Azeroth with ease, he has slipped up before now by underestimating the lich king, he would do it again.
7. hes not a wimp..what makes you say that, he has the minds of most of the creatures in AQ and can shoot some of the most powerful nature attacks in the game of WoW or at least before BC, he would take out an aspect such as Ysera imo
altho looking at them, its certainley possible Lich King could take on a Titan, maybe one of the lesser ones, not all of them are Sargerus level, and he is their champion, his avatar even though he wanted it, was still broken and destroyed by Aegwyn, also when did he come to end up in the Void? didnt Medihv cast him out or another mage? i cannot remember
8. Darth gave me the impression Noz had powers to freeze and slow time and such things as Noz pleases, so he could easily defeat Archi by freezing him and then smashing the guy to pieces, or age him
1. The horn woke up the ancestors of nature, who brought forth a gigantic blast charged by nature herself, along with sacreficing the World Tree.
3- 1. Easily?
3- 2. Kil'Jaeden
3- 3. Ysera, like all the other aspects is not weak. They have fields where they are more and fields where they are less effective.
4. She is huge, yes indeed she is. She is also powerful. However, Kil'Jaeden is bigger and also stronger.
When have Malygos breathed a being of Kil'Jaedens power and have them forget magic? More importantly, when has he done that action at all? I can not recall such a thing.
Undeads that die with one swing. Undeads that is being slaughtered at multiple locations. While Burning Legion's first siege caused gigantic destruction and had Azeroth being on the edge of annhiliation.
5. Who is more powerful than Kil'Jaeden? (Save Elune, and please do not bring Lich King or the aspects into it. Mention one more -active- being)
7. Are you bringing in WoW feats now? Archimonde, the weaker version of Kil'Jaeden is one-shotting anything in his path. He kills the entire raid with a swipe. If C'thun can kill Ysera with a NATURE blast (Which is her field of advantage), then Archimonde can, and if he can, Kil'Jaedens pure magic will destroy them all.
8. Nozdormu can halt time at specific locations. He sure could do so against Archimonde, but if he did he would fail both the Pantheon, his sworn oath AND then what? He has frozen him in time. Is he gonna scratch and growl Archimonde to death? Archimonde has never been harmed physically.
3-1. yes, its feasable to think Lich King could be on the same level as Elune, all she has is a title and the ability to stop battles but apprently she has great power, and lichie wants her gone
3-2. what about him?
3-3, i feel Ysera is the weakest one of them all, comparing to Malygos and such
4. What makes you think Killy is both larger and stronger? Alex is massive, Killy has come in various forms but none have i heard as large as (please log in to view the image)
shes much larger than that keep, which looks to me like a tower, when has Kiljaeden grown larger than this?, Archimonde even powered up by the world tree was the only way he grew far larger than usual
Malygos has done it, not to an Eredar, but why does Malygos, a font of magic and with a portion of Norgannons power (please dont say you think beloved Killy can touch Norgannon) even that piece of power given makes Malygos a master of magic and theres no reason why you should think Kiljaedens magics should be beyond him at all, has Killy ever defended against a power anything like this? no......
"undead" that can die with one swing? from whom, sure theres lesser undead zombies but there are other liches like Kelth, who Archimonde needed the thing with the demon lords is, they need so much and then get defeated. Theres so many undead, some who can possess, others who can take souls, all kinds and their at large across Azeroth
not really, the last burning legion attack was mostly failure, Sargerus himself comes onto the world and ends up defeated altho he wanted to be, he still in the long run is too short sighted to see his foolery, it seems a foolish endeaver to me in the first place, he could of taken the world i bet right there, also the destruction was due not all because of the legion but the well of eternity i think it was that blown by the night elves, did not the legion corrupt it or something? i cannot remember ,but once again, they "need" others to help them onto worlds with portals.
5. you basically crossed all those who could possibly be more powerful than him..cant rly think of any more
6. no, thats gameplay, those raid characters are puny, although if you take gameplay damage into it, i think C'thans beam is one of the most powerful hitters ever, it does like 2 million nature damage unless its been weakened, thas higher than Archimonde ime sure, apart from ofc his raid killer which is when he reaches the well or whatever he is trying to get to
7. hes never been harmed? oh wow, so hes invincible then? no......hed eventually be ripped down
Since I am currently lazy and worn out of your less knowledgable talk, I will make this brief and maybe harsh.
1. The ancestors are SHIT. They just worked as a link.
3-1. BS
3-2. Kil'Jaeden = Creator of undead
3-3. Ysera would destroy Malygos in the longrun. If he goes to sleep (Which she can force him to do), she will destroy him from the inside.
4. Kil'Jaeden has taken the size of a mountain. Also, if you are the least informed about buildings in Warcrafts, towers are not that big.
Archimonde was empowered by the World Tree in order to get that size? I am sorry, but however rude this might sound, but do you know ANYTHING?
Sargeras had the entire universe after him. Dying was the best option, because no one would look for him anymore.
Archimonde would destroy Kel'Thuzad without effort.
Malygos was granted a portion of Norgannon's powers. Kil'Jaeden was granted near limitless magical powers by Sargeras. (please dont say you think beloved Malygos can touch Sargeras)
5. So, top five powered then? In order of prime: Elune, Neltharion, Malygos, Ysera, Alextrasza. I only cut them out because they were the only top fighters. Since Lich King is ONE of the most powerful, it should at its best put him between Elune and Malygos. Certainly not equal to Elune.
6. The example you brought forth is gameplay too. Gameplay Archimonde instantly KILLS a target. C'thun does damage. Archimonde kills. Damage. Kills. Damage. Kills.
I think kill is better than damage.
7. Malorne's ram did not scratch Archimonde. The very same ram that threw soldiers of their feets in multiple miles radius. Nozdormu suddenly grew stronger than Malorne?
Even though it aches me to say, I dont think Lich King is as powerful as Kil'Jaeden.. When it comes to his mind, Lich King is massive, but I wouldnt say he can match Kil'Jaeden in actual power..
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but thats good Darth, you said "i dont think" wheras Fuddle says "NO he cannot be, no wai!!" i mean i dont "think" Lich King is definatley greater than Kiljaeden, but the way he is, ime not saying anything definte
also since when has Archimonde not grown large because of the world tree, thats disitnctly what i remember, when did they change it if it really is not because of the world tree he grew large
i remember something saying "as Archimonde neared the tree he fed from its magics and became colossal" or something like that
You mean when, other than the time where he took the size of a titan just to battle at equal terms of size? Other than the time where he outgrew Malorne to be able to match him physicaly?
Archimonde never had a chance to feed on the magic of the World Tree. It was destroyed in order to prevent that exact thing.
who says a Titan is as large as Archimonde was when he approached the tree, also that sounds like new stuff, they must have retconned it, definaltey at some point he gained power as he approached the tree wihch made him larger, thats how it was at one time, if theyve retconned it in a book then there we go
So if I play classic Warcraft III trough, I will get a definate source that says he grew in abnormal size (Relativly speaking), due to the power of the World Tree?
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Dec 28th, 2007 12:32 PM
