Aye... I guess the same can be said for Piccolo and Trunks as well for that matter (at least as far as the Cell saga goes and onward).
Well, I don't know about all the movies being made into story arcs (I agree that some of them should though like the ones with Cooler, and of course Bardock), and I fully agree about the Piccolo part as well.
Would've made Dabura not a throwaway character too like I kinda said before. If Buu has to be the main villain in the last season of DBZ, they could've at least had Dabura play some kind of important role in ensuring Buu's destruction or somethin', rather than being turned into a stupid cookie and getting eaten...
Also would've liked to see/hear more about the whole demon world that Dabura came from. Would've at least been more interesting than Super Buu absorbing Gotenks and all that shit. They really just dragged Buu out way too much.
Read the whole thread. Some great ideas. I agree with most of what Rid Prime said, and probably all of what Kento said.
I would make the power scaling normal. So, by the end of DBZ, Goku and Gohan would be destroy a quarter of a galaxy with just a normal Ki blast. I would make fights have to occur in a different dimension with Piccalo always transporting them.
I would still make SSJ4, but I would change the look of it completely. As well as SSJ3. The hair on SSJ3 and the missing eyebrows are stupid looking Whoopi Goldberg wanna bes.
I woulda made the SSJ4 the actual LSSJ and the whole thing about the LSSJ would be changed.
Vegeta would defnitely reach LSSJ, but far after Goku did. He would have to struggle to get there, just like he did for SSJ. VEGETA would have been the one to kill Freiza, not Goku.
Also, in the Saiyan Arc, I would have Goku hand Vegeta his a$$, and not make it nearly as even. Vegeta would NOT turn great Ape as he would be too arrogant to try that. This would make Vegeta have an epiphany of, "what the hell have I been doing all these years." Of course, Goku wil ls spare his life, and Vegeta will grow a soft spot for the Z warriors after that...however, he will still hold a grudge against Goku, a low class warrior, defeating him.
Goku's father would still be alive. Instead of planet Vegeta getting blown to bits, it would have been all of royalty (minus vegeta, of course. Vegeta would witness this, but pretend he didn't know, and work under Freiza his whole life until the Saiyan wrc) and all of the upper class noble saiyans...cause they would confront Freiza about treating the saiayns poorly and then Freiza would pwn them dead. Then, all the rest of the saiyans would be treated like dogs and low level henchmen, creating the hate. And starting up the events that lead to Freiza saga.
Of course, Goku would meet his father after the Saiyan saga, and Bardock would be a harsh, tough, rough, father, but still have a soft spot for Goku and still show it, but subtley. Bardock's backstory would still be mostly th same, but diverge when he tries to escape to find his wife (once he found out Frieza was coming...Bardock wouldn't actually try to lead the attack, King Vegeta would.)
What would set Vegeta off to go SSJ is something I haven't thought of, yet. Cooler would exist, and Goku would fight Cooler and go SSJ against Cooler. Goku would go SSJ against him because Cooler would execute Bardock, right in front of Goku.
NO SSJ kid trunks and kid Goten. They all would have to reach SSJ when they were in their 20s. The eariliest SSJ would still be Gohan (at 13?) It would stay that way.
Broly would be an entire saga after the Freiza and Cooler Saga. Broly would NOT destroy an entire galaxy, however. His form would still be USSJ with the speed of an ASSJ (like Vegeta.) Vegeta would beat down Broly, after coming out of the HBTC. He would have to work for it. Goku goes in, thinking Vegeta won't make it. HBTC training takes 14 days, instead of 1 day. The saga ends with Vegeta finally letting go of his pride, and accepting power from a namek and a half-breed saiyan (future trunks), which allows him to not kill, but knock out Broly. In this arc, the ultimate foe is Broly's father, but Broly still breaks free of the mind control device (but the mind control device never limits Broly's power.) Vegeta finds out about the mind control, and confronts Paragus about Paragus' plans to take over the now successful saiyan empire with what Paragus thought was the only SSJ. A fight comences and in so doing, Broly walks in on the fight, and witnesses Vegeta kill Paragus for his crimes against the Saiyan throne. Broly challenges Vegeta to an honor duel that will be held in 3 months. (Vegeta doesn't yet know that Broly has the USSJ form with the speed of a ASSJ, however, he does know that Broly is stronger than a regular SSJ, based on some sort of polot point I haven't thought of yet. So, they all decide the HBTC is their best bet.
Of course, Vegeta eventually wins (as I said before) with a similar "lend me your power" type of scenario. After Broly is conscious, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan all prove to Broli, with the help of Bulma figuring out the device, that Broly was being controlled. Broly becomes part of the Z family. Goku and Gohan were in their training in the HBTC, during this time, and still have 13 days levft to train.
So, when Goku and Gohan come out, they step out into....
Dr. Gero would use that data to make his androids. When Goku comes out of the HBTC, all of the events for the android saga have taken place with Vegeta getting beat down and Broly taking a fall to Android 16. Cell has come along and setup his tournie and absorbed the others. Just as before, Gohan would still do his SSJ2 thing against Cell.
That's all I've got so far for my re-write.
Also, I would change the dynamic of father-son relationships for Saiyans. Still, a son would kill his father, but only when the father had reached old age or the point of not being able to fight anymore. The son would then have a fight with his father, and hopefully, kill his father. This would be considered the most honorable way for a Saiyan to die, other than in battle.
Oh, and, somehwere in here, King Cold comes to Earth for revenge with Future Trunks saving everyone again. (At this point, Goku still takes a while to get back to Earth, as well, as he decides to go off and train. We can pretend that Cooler is the older more powerful brother, but Freiza was the one more interested in ruling, so he was the one who ruled.)
So, to sum up:
Bardock's alive.
Freiza only killed the Royalty and noble saiyans.
Goku beats down Vegeta.
Vegeta and Goku go SSJ against Frieza and Cooler, respectively. They defeat them. Vegeta becomes the Saiyan King, and sets new policies that have the Saiyans as mercanaries, but also more industrious and intelligent.
Broly is part of the main story and Veget beats him, and tells him to submit to his rule. Broly is brought around by Bulma proving that Paragus was mind controlling him and Vegeta was correct in executing him for Paragus Forcing Broly to murder all of those people.
The Android and Cell Saga finish and start, respectively, while Goku and Gohan are training to fight Broly, whom they thought Vegeta would never beat.
Gohan goes SSJ2, and beats Perfect Cell, just as before.
I agree with most of what you said, especially this part here. The eye-liners on SSJ4 kinda bothered me too, but not nearly as much as the lack of eyebrows on SSJ3. Otherwise though, I was fine with the general appearance of SSJ4 (yay for having a Super Saiyan form that isn't gold/blond hair ).
Also, co-signed... Same with the part about Bardock and Paragus.
Dunno about this however. I thought the whole "tragic death of a prince" thing was a fitting end for Vegeta... until he got revived.
I have to admit, that would've been more epic than Goku going SSJ the first time because of what Frieza did to stupid Krillen. Nicely thought.
And if Bardock doesn't get revived by the Dragon Balls afterward, he should at least be able to communicate with his son occasionally through King Kai or someone in the Other World. Didn't like how we never even saw Bardock in the Other World during that filler saga.
Agreed. That would be more reasonable IMO. Didn't like how the whole Super Saiyan legend became reduced to a child's play thing after the Cell saga...
I'd agree with most of that, except Gokou beating Vegeta, Broli parts, keeping more saiyans alive, and Trunks and Goten not being ssj. Vegeta beating Freeza would have been better for sure. Though not sure where I stand on Cooler or Broli being put into canon. Bardock living though would prove his intelligence.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Like I said above, I just threw Broly in there for the Broly fanboys. He's not a bad character, and the story isn't that bad either. Maybe it would be better if Broly dies, but while he's dying, it's revealed to him that his father lied to him? Then, Broly is the person Goku goes to fight in the tournie in heaven when he dies after the Cell Saga?
And, yes, I wanted to see more of Bardock. He was a cool character and I liked his development.
Cool. If you have any drawings, concept art that you like, etc. I'd really like to see them.
Cool. Like I said, the story is interesting and it has more potential that what it got in movie 8. To me, Paragus trying to take over the Saiyan race seems like a much better idea than just following around Broly, watching him destroy stuff.
Hmmm. But I don't want Vegeta to dieded. I want him and Goku to be near each other in power, with Goku getting the edge most of the time.
Vegeta needed to kill Freiza. I thought he got horribly robbed by Goku doing it. Goku had no deep need to kill Freiza, like Vegeta did. Freiza masacred all of Vegeta's people, including his family. Vegeta had a much closer connection to his race, being their prince and future king. He had to put up with Freiza and mistreatemnt all of those years as well. Sure, Goku had the whole "revenge for the crimes against life" thing, but that wasn't nearly as good of a reason as Vegeta's.
Yeah, I'd like to think that a Goku, rekindling the ties with his lost family, would have been a much better way to create the plot point for Goku going SSJ for the first time.
Good point. That would have been cool if Bardock was seen defending against Kid Buu, in SSJ form. It would have been kind of cool. Even better, that would have been cool to see Bardock as SSJ, in the Semi-Finals, against his son. (in the tournie in heaven.)
Indeed. My biggest complaint was how retarded the SSJ ability became when the kids got it.
Vegeta always wanted revenge against Freeza. I just like the fact Vegeta has 'won' all of his fights against Gokou, and wouldn't take them out myself but that's just me.
lol The only reason I didn't agree with them is because you have Vegeta beating him. That and taking his power down.
lol But Freeza and his men's biggest 'threat' came from a group of low level soldiers not any noble blood. That's just my reasoning. Though a whole group of saiyans may be cool who knows
Eh I just have no problem with them being ssj as kids. It's not like they were stronger than Piccolo. Then again Goten and Kid Trunks are two of my top favorite characters so I'm a bit bias. lol
True this. Vegeta should have at least beaten Ginyu, or somebody powerful. I mean sure he could have beaten Cell but suddenly he gets cocky and wants to fight a worthy opponent instead of his instant kill weaker opponents.
Broli knows his father was controlling him, that's why he killed him. lol Broli being pure evil is the part I like about him. He was subdued, and his evil was contained until Gokou showed. But it's the part of making Vegeta beat him, and turning him good, and weaker that I don't agree with. But it's not like the PIS defeat in movie 8 was much better I guess. I think a Gokou/Vegeta combo defeat would be cool though. Super combined blast or something. But that's just me.
It depends on which version of Bardock. Didn't like the turning into a 'hero' end of the american version with the whole I'm sorry I never held you stuff. I prefer the japanese version end of Bardrock telling Gokou to kill Freeza, and take the saiyans rightful revenge stuff. Though I wonder if Gokou would be weaker if raised by Bardock...
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
I understand Broly, but why are you unsure about Cooler? Frieza's father was canon, so it only makes sense for the rest of his family to be canon as well if you ask me.
lol I figured as much.
Yeah, but not as much as Piccolo IMO.
Eh, I don't think I do right now, but I'll let you know if I see any.
Indeed. Couldn't have put it better myself..
Not to mention, Paragus's hatred for King Vegeta supports that kind of plan of action as well.
It's not that I don't like Vegeta, but the scene with him dying (crying during his last words) was one of my most favorite parts of the entire series because it was sad, touching, emotional, and everything, making you like the character even more (well, for me anyway), but him getting revived by the Dragon Balls and then going back to his old selfish ways didn't do the character any justice IMO, especially when he kept getting robbed afterwards anyway as you put it.
I personally thought Goku had just as much need/reason to take down Frieza as Vegeta did, since Frieza killed his father too and all (granted, Goku never got to really know his father like Vegeta kind of did his, but still), though as for the rest, I guess you have a point.
Haha, yeah. That would've been tons better than Goku fighting Pikkon or some other random guy no one knew about before.
"I am the ruler of all Saiyans, even you Broly."
Actually wouldn't of minded that to be honest.
He beat Zarbon who took him down the first fight if that counts.
I seriously, seriously doubt it, but I guess that's debatable. After all, it wasn't until Goku trained with King Kai that he surpassed his father in power, but I still think he would've been better if raised by Bardock than Master Roshi and the like...
I don't know. I never really consider Cooler part of the family anyway as he's not canon. I think the only movie character I'd add to canon would be Tapion
"Then try your best to make me kneel before you." =P
It just bugs me that Vegeta wa so scared, and then got taken out in one attack. Even Piccolo got more time than that. I wouldn't make Vegeta so scared but I don't think I'd let him win, least not by himself.
Yes, but Zarbon wasn't a 'big' threat. He wasn't even close to being one of the strongest. And Jeice was just a throwaway character after the rest of the Ginyu Force was beaten by Gokou.
Yes, but his pureness, and naivety was what caused him to be strong, besides the fact he was the main character. Vegeta even says it himself that the need to protect others, and not to fight to get stronger was why Gokou was so powerful. If he was raised by Bardock he'd have more of a saiyan mentality, and just fight to get stronger.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
But I'm saying he should be canon since he's Frieza's brother and all, and is much more intelligent.
"Ah, look at him. What foolishness. He's so pleased with himself that he's blinded by his arrogant pride. That could be King Vegeta on that space pod for all he knows. You've got a lot to learn... brother."
Any reason he shouldn't be with a badass quote like that?
The tale of the legendary super saiyan was something Vegeta always feared apparently, so it made sense to me as to why he was so scared of Broly at first, especially after his first attacks had no effect on him... I guess I agree though that he probably shouldn't of won by himself, and he didn't anyway, so meh.
Yeah. I guess that's true now that ya mention it, and the only reason Goku was pure and naive like that in the first place was because he got hit in the head as a child. Otherwise, he would've been just like the rest of the saiyans.
no, daburas spit would be inefective imo, buu is magic he changes entire cities into different candy with ease i think he could stop dabura (who is much weaker) from changing him into stone.
now to answer the question to the forum. i would make it about 1/4 the size, and keep the entire story and all the cool fighting. i would also make it so that the stage for their fights acurate to their power, at about buu on they would be easily powerful enough to destroy continents on accident, if not the planet, so i would make it so they need to move the fight to some dimention, or just in space (which is actually large enough for their speed) i mean the baby saga on was just stupid, them fighting on the moon, much smaller than earth, they would have destroyed it easily
oh and i would make someone other than goku and vageta get powerful, or pretty much all of them, probably stop the series after either the frieza saga or the cell saga (frieza saga was the best imo). make ssj2 actually ssj4 and go through the same thing to get it, i dont like that they could go passed ssj just because they got stronger, surpassing ssj should be something unique, just like ssj was supposed to be, which brings me to my next one. i would make it so that only the elite of the sayans could go ssj i.e. goku and vageta
On the contrary, the spit would have affected him, as it was magic too (Dabura's a demon and king of his universe as well). Why would Buu have bothered to dodge the spit if it were ineffective on him? The spit turns to stone whatever it initially touches and spreads from there. Not even Buu's regenerative abilities would have saved him from that.
Unfortunately for Dabura, he waited until he was about to die (in a severely weakened state) before trying to spit on Buu as opposed to turning him to stone when he first had the chance, so Buu's victory over Dabura was pretty much PIS as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with you about the Baby saga though...
edit: While on the subject of Dabura, I also would've changed it to where he still would've been the same badass demon king as opposed to the stupid freak he became after dying. He showed love and compassion when talking with Bulma, Chi-Chi, and Videl in the Other World. That was so incredibly gay... I will not forgive that, whether it was filler or not.
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Last edited by Ridley_Prime on Jan 3rd, 2010 at 01:33 PM
After looking that last part up (about Dabura becoming friends with the women of DBZ in the afterlife), turns out it was filler. Thank god... Still, it was stupid. Way to ruin his character.
And after watching the fight with Buu again just now, I see Dabura actually had plenty of perfect chances to hit Buu with his spit but didn't... He waited 'till he was on his last legs before tryin' to do so for some reason.
Ghey. Buu should've gotten turned to stone. There were many opportunities for that.
But what would have stopped Buu from just reversing it? He's turned people to all kinds of food, and if I recall he healed Babidi after Piccolo cut him in half, and didn't he heal the dog? Buu is also more powerful in every way. He may have been child-like but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been smart enough to reverse the effects.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Fat Buu attempted to turn Evil Buu into chocolate, but had his own magic turned against him when Evil Buu directed the attack right back at him... That's enough reason for me to believe the magic of Dabura's spit would've affected Buu as well, regardless of the difference in their power levels.
Piccolo has regenerative abilities like Buu does too (maybe not as efficient, but still has 'em), and that didn't save him from getting turned to stone either.
Definitely one thing I would've done differently in the series as well, needless to say. But at least it was only filler.
*shrugs* Evil Buu was also stronger than Fat Buu. And since Evil Buu was able to turn Fat Buu's magic on his then Fat Buu probably could do the same to Dabura. IMO anyway.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 29th, 2009 10:52 PM
).
I have to admit, that would've been more epic than Goku going SSJ the first time because of what Frieza did to stupid Krillen. Nicely thought.
Couldn't have put it better myself..
