Sure. It's actually in the early Jewish writings called the Toledoth Yeshu and is again mentioned in Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew. Plus the Bible's account of the Jewish response to the empty tomb.
My thoughts: If the tomb was not empty, the Jews would definitely had proved so if they could have. But they did not, strongly inferring that they could not because the tomb was indeed empty.
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What if the body of Jesus was moved to the new tomb, but the tomb was hidden, and no one (with the exception of Jesus' family) knew where it was until now.
I'd ask why Matthew is in the tomb then? Especially considering that Matthew was martyred far away from Jerusalem (though that location is debated). That is of course, assuming that it is the disciple Matthew... if its not, then it seems improbable that this could ever possibly be the tomb of Jesus. Also, Mary and Joseph (especially Joseph) would have been in their family tomb, not buried in a seperate tomb with Jesus. It is even less likely considering that Mary is thought to have died in Ephesus in Asia Minor, very far from the Jerusalem area.
Last edited by Nellinator on Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:21 AM
From what I got on the news today it seems the DNA samples are based upon testable material found in the caskets which proves the relationship between the people that resided in them.
Beyond that an emphasis seems to exist on the combination of names - that is a combination of names found in the holy texts of these faiths, with the expectation that it would be a remarkable coincidence if there was another Jesus in this period who just happened to be the son of a Mary and Joseph, and who just so happened to associated with a Mary whose names bears a striking resemblance to Mary Magdalene's (and apparently the DNA tests shows Jesus body and Mary M. body weren't related by blood, thus improving the likelihood they were married.)
Which might be one of the counterarguments they use against the "these were very common names in that era" - the documentations aren't debating that, but saying the particular combination of names, matching up so perfectly with the Biblical account, wouldn't have been a common.
Of course I imagine there must be more to it then that, but that is what the news readers have given so far.
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Last edited by Imperial_Samura on Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:26 PM
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I'm open to whatever James and the project present...however, I just know both sides of the fence (atheist and Christians) are just gonna go at each others throats. Anyways, no one does anything for free...so whatever people will pay for this most likely is the main object and the actual project itself.
True but at the same time every atheist will take any and all evidence against religion as absolute truth.
Furthermore, the fact that DNA testing shows these people are related is not surprising. THEY SHARE A TOMB! Tombs aren't the same as graveyards where anybody can be put. Tombs are put aside for families.
And what biblical studies have proven this. As far as I know, the New Testament says Jesus was resurrected. Are they saying that this "biblical evidence" is from those other gospels like the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Judas? I don't see the logic in that. I mean, you don't believe in what the bible says as an atheist. What makes these bibles more believable than the others, other than the fact that it says what you want it to say? Not you personally, Capt, but you generally.
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I like how it's a conspiracy when the Jews are considered, but it isn't when the christians are examined. You know why the Jews didn't go out of their way to "prove" anything? Because they didn't buy it. Jesus wasn't the only guy running around saying he fulfilled the requirements to be the Messiah.
As for the DNA, I haven't seen the documentary, so I can't comment on that. I assume they'll explain it. And if you read my last post, you'll see that I don't buy into the hype that this will be the bombshell it's being made out to be. If the history of a couple of the people involved holds true, it will take two steps forward and three steps back at every turn. They'll take a few steps forward to prove that Jesus wasn't ressurected and then they'll take three steps back to say that there's no evidence that he wasn't.
Also, I'm not an atheist.
No, I don't believe in what the bible says. It isn't a matter of buying into one non-canon gospel over a canon gospel. It's a matter of knowing the history of the christian religion and the history of the book we call the bible. If there were any books that didn't fulfill the undisputable divinity of Christ that the church had to propagate, they were tossed out. They were destroyed or called blasphemy. Jesus Christ didn't pick and choose the books humans were to consider canon, men did. I do find the three dimensional view of Jesus you get by looking at all canon and non-canon gospels extremely interesting. I see Jesus as a great man who had some very good ideas about humanity having to live together and making the best of it. But I don't think he's the son of god. Nothing this documentary is going to say will make any difference to my opinion. Just as it will have no influence on the opinion of people like Nellinator. The only difference is that I'm willing to admit it's my opinion. I don't approach the whole world like it's stupid because I've been inspired by some divine truth that no one else really understands.
I also find it interesting that he's attempting to use logic to explain why there's no chance this crypt is what they say it is (which I don't really believe they're saying) when he has many times in the past said that logic and religion have no buisness being considered in the same league.
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Feb 27th, 2007 06:56 AM
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