Of course we're agreed. I never tried to claim that Cap was as fast as Spidey, just close enough.
Well as has been pointed out, Cap's strength is no where near Spidey's so a direct comparison of strength feats is ridiculous. However if you're trying to determine how well Cap will be able to weather Spidey's punches we can look here...
All in all, I think it’s safe to say that even though Spidey CAN KO Cap, he’s going to have to get in more than a few shots to do it.
And if we're trying to figure out whether or not Cap is going to be able to hurt Spidey with his punches and pressure point attacks, these scans certainly seem to indicate that he can…
In their last fight Cap didnt use his shield to block Spidermans punches once.....and that was an upgraded Spiderman. Cap is capable of ddoing a good portion of Spidermans punches and rolling with them.
Iron fist's chi is not the same as all other martial artists chi in comics. Rand was infused with a dragon's (Shou-Lao the Undying) superhuman energy. Using chi he unleashes this energy.
The evidence is in Logan.
Show me CA using chi in battle without meditating. Show me any martial artist (besides Iron Fist since he has supernatural powers of a dragon) that used chi in battle without the benefit of meditation.
In comics both Spiderman and CA can't dodge lasers. They simply move out of the way of the aim. And by the way Spidey sees bullets much slower than what CA sees them.
Lastly to dodge a bullet requires one to move 1/(2d)th of the distance d that the bullet travels (in the same amount of time that bullet is in the air on its way to them). So one has to move at an average speed and distance of 1/20th of a bullet to dodge it from 10ft. For example, if a bullet's speed is 600mph then one must move an average of 30mph to avoid getting hit by a bullet that is 10ft away in the air. This is hardly that fast. But the feat does require great reflexes to see the path of bullet in order to start to get out of the way. So while CA only two times was barely shown to dodge a bullet (barely leaning out of the way) this shows his average speed is somewhere around 30-60mph which is just right for peak human.
In most of CA's history he relies on blocking a decent amount of the bullets with his shield (and evading the rest) as he moves evasively to avoid getting hit by bullets. CA actually truly dodging bullets (after the fire) is very very rare and is also arguable even in those rare circumstances that he didn't dodge after the fire. He's more of an evasive mover like almost every other skillful normal human is in comics. So since CA has no super powers by definition and the fact that his so called arguable very rare bullet dodging feats are weak (barely barely leaning out of the way) then it is clear that Spidey is much faster than him. With that said, adding in the Spidey's SS, inhuman agility, and super human strength and this fight becomes spite.
Actually examples of Spdierman dodging bullets after they have been fired is very rare as well but obvoulsy you assumle that Cap isnt doing that when you see him dodging bullets.
They're doing tai chi and lots of meditation. You don't have to close your eyes to meditate. CA won't even have the slightest chance to even do some slow a$$ tai chi movements to build up his chi. Plus chi adds no more than 10-20% more power (for those who mastered it) and absolutely no extra reflexes. Iron Fist is different since he actually uses chi to channel the dragon's super natural energy he was already infused with.
So if you can meditate and move at the same time why cant he use it in combat?
He has mastered Chinese martial arts. Chinese martial arts involve using chi while fighting so yes he would be able to use it. Obvoulsy you dont move slow while using tai chi in combat hes moving slowly because hes trying to teach Spiderman.
Proof:
CA has peak human abilities (including reflexes)
Spidey has super human abilities (including reflexes)
super human abilities>peak human abilities.
No he can't.
He runs about 30mph. And he ran a little less than 60mph one time under duress. This constitutes as PIS since it was one time and out of CA's true 30mph running speed.
No so. Also CA has been seen all his career needing the shield to block many of the bullets that he couldn't evade (he evaded the others though). Also shoot a machine gun at him and either he moves in evasive movement beforehand or he will get hit (he needs his shield or evasive movement for this).
Do you know what Tai Chi is? You must perform specific movements while breathing slowly in and out. It is slow as hell. You can't move too fast when doing this. Otherwise you won't build up your chi. And CA won't get to perform the Tai Chi movements while breathing in and out slowly for Spidey will make sure to that.
You must move slow and breath to build up your chi. But again it won't benefit CA since he doesn't have the energy of an actual dragon infused in him (like Iron Fist).
First of all, Spidey is not borderline Super human by any stretch of the imagination. Second there is a level between Super human and Peak human. This level is enhanced human. But even so my proof shows that Spidey sees bullets slower even if CA is just a small notch below.
Not in running.
Not after the fire. Plus there's lots of examples where he used the shield.
You dont use slow movements while your in combat!!!!!
Not while your in combat you moron. Even if you use some common sense you could figure that out. Hell ive got books where I Tai Chi guys states that often tai chi is taught in slow motion but thats a bad way to teach it because when you fight it wont be slow. Slow movements are for beginners.
Last edited by Deadline on May 24th, 2008 at 10:42 AM
You didn't get me.
You must use slow movements and breathing to build chi (not to fight). My argument is that CA won't get a chance to build up chi in battle. Tai chi teaches both how to fight and how to build chi. The latter will not be available to CA in his fight with Spiderman. If so then it won't do him any good anyway as he's not Iron Fist.
Look you dumbass. Im not debating with you im TELLING YOU. If you have mastered it you dont use have to use slow motions to focus it get it???? Im not making this shit up ask somebody who has mastered tai chi. Jehsus!
Can you see how you dont know what the **** your talking about, but you're telling me I dont get it?
Last edited by Deadline on May 24th, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Focus it? You build it up. You can build a little, you can build a lot. But the more you build takes more time.
Do you know what chi is?
I practiced both chi power and tai chi over 10 years ago for several months.
Also, you must focus your undivided attention on a specific area of your body to build the chi there. You must also breath accordingly (there are several different types of breathing to achieve different effects).
Every time my master (In blue dragon style kung-fu) performs a demonstration in class (like breaking many concrete slabs or pushing against the entire class with one hand) he takes time to first build up his chi. He never obtained sufficient built up chi on the spot. It requires undivided attention and time or it won't work.
What that said, even if SM gives CA prep to build his chi then it still won't do him any good as he's not Iron Fist.
Ive been meditating for 10 years and ive used chi in my punches ok. Obvoulsy the more time you take the more energy you get, the better you are the more you can get in less time. You can channel chi instantly.
Obvoulsy Cap isnt as good as IF but he can still channel some chi immeditaley and while in combat.
Hell ive been to Kung Fu school and people were able to channel there chi instantly and ive doen it as well, so I dont know what the hell you're talking about but ive never used it to break blocks. You dont need undivided attention when you get to a certain level.
hell its supposed to take 6 months on avreage for a person to first notice it. You did it for several months thats dont mean nothing.
Last edited by Deadline on May 24th, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Okay if you're right then please tell me who can do this. For I will gladly pay to learn to do this. I guess my teacher was sh!tty.
I am referring more to the effectiveness of the chi achieved.
How do you know you built up this chi when you say you did it instantly?
Was there a significant difference in the power of your punch vs. not building chi at all. And how can anyone or anything do anything instantaneous? It takes time to do anything.
From my understanding It takes at least one deep breath to build even the slightest chi.
Note: I shouldn't be telling you this but I'll give you a hint on something. The study of true chi is really a secret. Many instructors are not teaching the real chi power. For with real chi power one can do super natural things. I don't want to go into too many details but moving objects without touching them is a sign that someone is teaching you the real thing.
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May 24th, 2008 04:53 AM
