I'm not the one who started this, I know Goku can't destroy universe and can't resist a universe buster. Most important of all, I know Goku is not the strongest but in this site dbz is underestimated to the point of 90% of the feats are hyperbole or he cant do it or he just bluffing and etc. Dragon Ball is underestimated in this site.
__________________ Crossovers usually beat logic, so equations cannot prove who is stronger.
Fisrt of all, I know Goku can't destroy a universe and I know Goku can't resist a universe buster. Most important of all, I know Goku is not the strongest.
You lacked knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?
They dont sense energy from its radiation, its from the presence of energy. They can sense a non-radiating energy, for example normal humans or any z-fighter who is not radiating his energy like yajirobee.
Its about SSJ3 Goku's energy reaching another dimension. It was stated that its enough to reach another dimension. Stated by Kibito.
That feat didn't even shake the whole planet.
Redemption and blackrock can't destroy a city because there are no proofs or energy measurement to back it up
You can't apply that logic of yours in dragon ball z because in dragon ball z there are energy measuring device and they can also sense their enemies' energy as a proof. You can't just say that its nothing because Toriyama made it that way, not from you logic and opinion.
They cant sense the androids energy so the only feat here is 17 single handedly defeated a super saiyajin without any effort. Again don't apply your logic of yours because this is dragon ball z.
Enough to reach another dimension.
In terms of dbz knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?
__________________ Crossovers usually beat logic, so equations cannot prove who is stronger.
Last edited by nij-ayias on Jun 30th, 2008 at 06:08 AM
You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?
In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.
And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.
What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.
They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.
The androids had no ki....
Special pleading fallacy.
Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.
Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?
The double standard here is sickening.
Be consistent.
Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.
How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.
In case you didn't pick up on it, I was arguing against Kento there. I see no reason to assume DB Earth is smaller than our earth..
I would agree about the oxygen, even with Gotenks going around earth, but i disagree about being knocked in few hills and get hurt, i think is understimation from your part, mostly because what hurt them is the punch of the enemy, perhaps if you are refering to early DBZ probably i would agree, i dont recall any of the mayor characters being hurt by being send into hills in the end of Z
for example in The fight Gohan vs Superbuu what is show is that Gohan is hurt by the punchs.
The power of punch also is show when gohan defeat the Cell juniors.
the top fights is against Buu, hard to destroy rubber that regenarate. the punchs change the shape of his body.
Basing in what the history is about, and that each saga is a continuation of the previous, is logic for me to think that if Freeza will show against SSJ 2 or 3, he will be pulverize like the Cell juniors, even the Kai o Shin say He could defeat Freeza with one blow.
And Freeza survive a planet explosion with his body cut in half and weakened.
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Supreme Kai states that he and his fellow ( diseased superme kais) where each 1000X Friezas power !! Plus the Kais are Omniscient ( All Knowing) Suprme Kais seems wek because he is agasint someone like Majin Buu whodestroyed entire galaxys, supremeb kai cud crack a planet in 2 wit a single thoat !!
Cell kicked Gohan through a small hill and Gohan was bleeding from it.
Well obviously Buu is a special case, since he can regenerate his wounds easily.
Surviving is different from being unharmed. Frieza would have died if his father hadn't found him.
That was only in the dub. In the manga he said they could kill Frieza with one blast.
Let me ask you again, have you actually read the Dragonball manga or just watched the dubbed anime?
....No they're not. If they were, they wouldn't have needed help to find Babibi, they wouldn't have been surprised at how strong the Saiya-jins were, they wouldn't have been uncertain about the outcome of all of those battles, Kaioshin would have known about Old Kaioshin being in the sword.... etc. That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.
Filler, again. You've already been corrected on this.
Assuming you mean "thought", I see absolutely no evidence to suggest this.
Every living things are emitting energy like aura including Superman. Still it doesn't change the fact that Superman's energy or power was not enough to reach another dimension. Besides, Modern-Superman is weaker than Superman in OWAW storyline. Superman (in OWAW storyline) radiates his energy, did it reach another dimension? NO.
Superman is a living thing and the energy or aura from his body cannot reach another dimension.
In fact, Kaioshin and Kibito were training Gohan to master the Z-sword, they're not monitoring the universe when SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed their training in the Kaiohshin Kai. Is that what you call "HARDLY A CONTENDER"?
Since when it was stated that the lack of oxygen could kill a saiyan? Toriyama accepts the Bardock Story as a part of manga-continuity Gotenks flew outside the planet.
Normal humans can swim and hold their breath in water, does that mean that human can live or survive in water? Of course not.
Goku in his teenage years survived a dropped from a thousand miles. Its the impact of the attacks that hurt them, not the few hills.
You're underestimating Superman by saying that Redemption is on or near Superman's level. I know, you know it yourself that Superman is always holding back and that he rarely use his true power.
This statement was about Redemption and Dragon Ball, not Superman and Dragon Ball. Again, Redemption can't destroy a city and he's not holding back while Superman is always holding back. Superman is not a killer and he always holds back while Redemption is doing his best but still he can't destroy a city in a single wave of his hand.
What are you talking about? Is that hardly pretender? Kaioshin and Kibito were training Gohan to master the Z-sword, they're not monitoring the universe when SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed their training in the Kaiohshin Kai.
__________________ Crossovers usually beat logic, so equations cannot prove who is stronger.
get out of a dbz respect posting superman crap. Realize this, goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Superman, and thats being nice. When superman stop getting one shotted by konvict, despero, and titus then maybe he would be close to there level. Superman on a daily basis have trouble with mere bricks, how in the hell is he going to fight someone he cant see.
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Cel can survive in space, as can Buu, saiyans are trickey when it comes to breathing in space, as frieza states he destroyed the planet namek so that goku wouldnt have any more air to breathe, however bardock is in space when he confronts frieza, vegeta and nappa are in space when vegeta destroys the planet areila on the way to earth, nd gohan piccolo and krillin fight dr wheelo in space !
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Jun 30th, 2008 05:31 AM
