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Murder or Self Defense?
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Röland
...I don't think he was planning all along to kill these people and I don't think he was in a "bloodlust". He made the biggest mistakes of his life and he has to live with them.




Very well put.

Edit- I would NOT want to be this guy. I fear that I may have been just as trigger happy had they stepped into my house. Killing two men when you are not built to kill is not easy to live with. I don't speak from experience, either...I just wouldn't want to live with it.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 06:53 AM
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Röland
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then he should have stayed inside and covered the door with his shotgun instead of being all gung ho and PURSUING them.

As I said in my post, the guy was probably not thinking straight.

It sounds like he acted on pure emotion and instinct.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 06:59 AM
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Rogue Jedi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Röland
As I said in my post, the guy was probably not thinking straight.

It sounds like he acted on pure emotion and instinct.
And this allows room for murder?


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:01 AM
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Röland
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And this allows room for murder?

Never said it did.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:03 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Röland
Never said it did.
Then why is he walking around free?


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:06 AM
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Röland
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then why is he walking around free?

Insufficient evidence.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:16 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Röland
Insufficient evidence.
What about the two dead illegals? What about him telling he 911 operator what he was gonna do, then doing it?


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:25 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What about the two dead illegals? What about him telling he 911 operator what he was gonna do, then doing it?


What about the dude shot in the back? That is usually presented as a counter argument for "self defense" pleas in court by the prosecutors when gun shots are involved.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:35 AM
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Röland
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What about the two dead illegals? What about him telling he 911 operator what he was gonna do, then doing it?

The two dead men aren't going to be talking anytime soon and the 911 operator did not see what happened or heard the dialog once Horn goes outside. So all he has is Horn saying he is going to shoot them before it happens.

Given the situation and the fact that the Horn was clearly scared out of his wits, Horn could easily say that he wasn't thinking clearly and the tape supports it. Now look at the evidence against the two robbers. The broken glass/door as to how they got in and anything they may have taken while in the neighbors house.

The only things against Horn are the gun and the two dead men. There are no witnesses other than Horn, so it's really just his word they can go by and the fact that these two men were robbing the house also supports his story. I am not sure, but doesn't Texas Law favor the homeowner/landowner in respect to their options when confronted with trespassing/theft? If so, that helped him as well.


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Last edited by Röland on Jul 7th, 2008 at 07:53 AM

Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:49 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Röland
The two dead men aren't going to be talking anytime soon and the 911 operator did not see what happened or heard the dialog once Horn goes outside. So all he has is Horn saying he is going to shoot them before it happens.

Given the situation and the fact that the Horn was clearly scared out of his wits, Horn could easily say that he wasn't thinking clearly and the tape supports it. Now look at the evidence against the two robbers. The broken glass/door as to how they got in and anything they may have taken while in the neighbors house.

The only things against Horn are the gun and the two dead men. There are no witnesses other than Horn, so it's really just his word they can go by and the fact that these two men were robbing the house also supports his story. I am not sure, but doesn't Texas Law favor the homeowner/landowner in respect to their options when confronted with trespassing/theft? If so, that helped him as well.
You just said it, he TOLD the operator he was gonna shoot them, therein lies the intent to commit MURDER.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 08:51 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You just said it, he TOLD the operator he was gonna shoot them, therein lies the intent to commit MURDER.


The legal term is "intent to kill"...(no, i'm not correcting you...I am providing random facts to back up yo werdz)

The dude should have gotten man slaughter charges for shooting that one guy in the back...


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 09:01 AM
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demon-lllama
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If I were him, I would run away. Of I were one of the robbers, I don't think I'd run. Obviously, he wants them dead or to stay for the cops. I probably would still be alive.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 10:22 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
The legal term is "intent to kill"...(no, i'm not correcting you...I am providing random facts to back up yo werdz)

The dude should have gotten man slaughter charges for shooting that one guy in the back...
But hey, he was "fearing for his life" roll eyes (sarcastic)


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 01:10 PM
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Evil Dead
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waa waa........I feel so bad for a couple of criminals who were killed while committing a crime.

to hell with them. I'd rather they be dead than in prison, this way my tax dollars aren't being wasted to keep them fed and healthy so they'll be in good condition when they get out and start committing crimes again.

the moral of this story.........don't commit crimes if you don't want to take the chance of losing your life while committing them.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 01:38 PM
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Rogue Jedi
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I bet you bleed Red, white and blue, dont you?


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 05:10 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Evil Dead
the moral of this story.........don't commit crimes if you don't want to take the chance of losing your life while committing them.


were this true, the man would have no justification for "self defense" even if the thief had charged him

he was commiting a crime by disregarding the orders of a police officer to remain in his house


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 05:14 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
were this true, the man would have no justification for "self defense" even if the thief had charged him

he was commiting a crime by disregarding the orders of a police officer to remain in his house
thumb up well said.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 05:17 PM
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Röland
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You just said it, he TOLD the operator he was gonna shoot them, therein lies the intent to commit MURDER.

And I'm sure any good attorney could make the case that he was not in his right mind.

I'm not trying to justify his actions, you're asking me what I think and I am telling you. People have gotten away with worse crimes with more evidence against them then this situation, so is it really a big surprise that this guy killed two people and got away scotch free?

Seriously stop getting upset because I am not saying what you want me to say.


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Last edited by Röland on Jul 7th, 2008 at 06:15 PM

Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 06:11 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Evil Dead
waa waa........I feel so bad for a couple of criminals who were killed while committing a crime.

to hell with them. I'd rather they be dead than in prison, this way my tax dollars aren't being wasted to keep them fed and healthy so they'll be in good condition when they get out and start committing crimes again.

the moral of this story.........don't commit crimes if you don't want to take the chance of losing your life while committing them.


LOL!

Such cynicism...I LOVE IT!


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 07:45 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Röland
And I'm sure any good attorney could make the case that he was not in his right mind.

I'm not trying to justify his actions, you're asking me what I think and I am telling you. People have gotten away with worse crimes with more evidence against them then this situation, so is it really a big surprise that this guy killed two people and got away scotch free?

Seriously stop getting upset because I am not saying what you want me to say.
Tring to upset you? I'm not trying to upset you. you are telling me what you think, and vice versa.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2008 08:43 PM
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