It would have to make nine hundred million domestically to beat Titanic once inflation is taken into account- i.e. for more people to have actually seen TDK than Titanic.
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Tickets haven't increased that dramatically since Titanic was in theatres. And if you want to do the inflation equation, Titanic doesn't have the top spot anyway - It's Gone With The wind, followed by the first Star Wars when you adjust the dollars.
This is all about modern dollars, here.
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Yes, ticket prices have increased that much, and I am well aware Gone with the Wind has the top spot, it is just that everyone has been making the comparison with Titanic (besides which, Gone with the Wind was released in a totally different marketplace).
'Modern dollars' is an irrelevant measure. The only relevant measure is how many people went to see it. Ticket sales are only being used as a way to try and get that figure, which is why inlfation adjustment is essential, because that gives the accurate measure based on how many people went to see the film.
Incidentally your original post is inaccurate; if you are saying ROTK made 1.1 billion international- which is its COMBINED total, not just that outside the US- then by that same logic Titanic make 1.8 billion, not 1.2, and TDK won't go anywhere near it, inflation adjusted or otherwise.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Sep 3rd, 2008 at 02:44 PM
Fine, fine. You can split hairs many different ways - how a films' length limits or enhances the number of screenings per day, how admisssion prices for children are less and can affect box office total etc. I've never seen accurate listings for actual ticket sales to determine how films stack up against one another. But, no one can convince me that Titanic actually sold more tickets than Star Wars did - it got rereleased to theatres over and over again and kept making money. Titanic had a huge run of eight months and no more.
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Titanic hasn't sold more tickets than Star Wars did, what gave you the idea that anyone said that? It's made a lot more money, but again, that's because of inflation. This demonstrates the precise point we are making here- Titanic made a higher flat figure but the value of that money was less than that of what Star Wars made, and so by that same logic- a lot more people went to see Star Wars.
This isn't splitting hairs. This is looking at truth. Why intentionally deceive yourself? The important point is if Batman sells more tickets compared to other films. It would have to sell nine hundred million dollars worth of tickets domestically to have achieved the same domestic ticket sales as Titanic- simple as that. Whatever minor issues might slightly efefct the totals that can be worked out here, they are as nothing to the massive inaccuracy of smply looking at the flat figures, when it is obvious to anyone of any intellgence that when tickets cost more between two films, simply looking at the money made is obviously not an accurate comparison to the popularity of the film or the tickets sold.
Incidentally, in any film from the mid-90s onwards, ticket data is actually very comprehensive.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Sep 3rd, 2008 at 05:16 PM
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If you were to switch roles here....i.e. putting TDK back in the late 90s and Titanic during the millenium. Then TDK beats Titanic with no sweat. Titanic isn't going agaisnt the major piracy of this day and age. It's complete unfair to say TDK won't beat Titanic...simply because Titanic would have been pirated much worse than TDK is right now.
Piracy hit very hard post Spiderman 2002. It became so bad that there are huge campaign opposing pirated copies. Anyone knows this when you rent or buy a DVD nearly they all have the same ad saying "dowloading is illegal and blah, blah, blah...." You guys seen them. You know what I'm talking about.
It's fair to use the modern dollars and simply reject inflation. Because by throwing inflation in....throw the piracy factor as well...which hurts TDK numbers more than Titanic.
Pirated copies of Titanic...ha! That's a good one.
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Last edited by WanderingDroid on Sep 4th, 2008 at 12:30 AM
It's been claimed by some forum users here in the past years.
And any talk of inflation here renders this entire thread pointless. Because adjusted for inflation, Titanic isn't No.1 at all, as it has been stated already. This is all about modern dollars. Like in the 1970's, when The Godfather & Jaws were the first films to past the $100 million mark in North America. Adjusted for inflation and the feat becomes less important, but it was still an historic threshold to cross, at the time.
The Dark Knight will likely fall short of catching Titanic's overall worldwide gross, but if it passed it's North American total, that's plenty bragging rights there for claiming to be the biggest ever. In Hollywood, how a film performs in it's own territory can be enough to claim supremacy - it's happened before.
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You are just going around in circles now, roughrider. We've already addressed the point thar Titanic isn't number one- that is completely and utterly irrelevant and changes nothing!
Meanwhile, again, saying this thread is about 'modern dollars' is akin to saying this thread is pointless. That measure means nothing at all.
It's not the money you bring in that determines whether you are the most successuful film. As I said, even a child can work out that is not so, as inlfation makes the REAL value of the money brought in less.
And regardless of whether that is true or not WD- and that's really a supposition- the fact still remains this. If we are doing a comparison of how well Batman did against Titanic in the cinemas, then TDK will have to gross nine hundred million to have beaten the effective money intake of Titanic, and hence demonstrated that more people wernt to see it. Now, if you want to come up with reasons as to WHY TDK does not manage that, fine. But that would still be the fact.
This statement:
"It's fair to use the modern dollars and simply reject inflation."
Gibberish.
You are fooling yourselves and it is sad.
All you are doing is trying to celebrate not the fact that more people went to see the film, but thatt the tickets cost more (even though their real cost did not increase). What the hell kind of system is that? As I say, it is so obviously flawed and stupid as a comparison I am amazed anyone would try to make it.
Nine hundred million domestic. That is the target. Less than that and Titanic beat it- because that means more people went to see Titanic. Simple. Why lie to yourselves about such things?
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Sep 4th, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
This isn't about whether is true or not....it's truth. There is no denying that piracy inflicts great costs to movie studios. Anyone knows this...me saying it and repeating it is like guiding school children to cross a bridge. It's common sense..the piracy is there....you cannot tell me that the piracy of this day is same as in the days of Titanic...no way! It's much much more evolve and larger than those days.
Saying inflation is a factor while turning a blind eye to piracy is incredible foolish. As I said before...switching tables with Titanic and TDK you will get that TDK beats Titanic. Not only TDK but also other major summer hits like Episode III, Spiderman 3, and Indiana Jones and the Crystal of Skull....they already would have put Titanic on retirement. But it isn't possible in this day and age simply because of major piracy.
Don't believe? Go ahead and search WB and piracy...the first bootleg copy of TDK hit the black market and online in less than 24 hours after the Australian premire....The WB is gone in major ways to reduce the piracy. They know they can't stop it. Only battle is to ask the audiences not to give into buying these bootlegs.
So saying that inflation is the reason why TDK is doing quite well and ignoring that piracy hinders ticket sales is quite unreasonable.
thats a good point about the piracy. i've never thought of that before..
well, despite that, do you think TDK could pass Titanic if they were to keep it in theaters for 9 months as well?...
I always laugh when people bring the inflation argument. It's funny how they try to demean and rise some movies using this point, but don't take the other circumstances in consideration, such as piracy, dvd's, competition from other movies etc.
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that's because they try to figure out which got the most legit audience... piracy can't be measured. For all we know a retarded movie like Eurotrip or the likes is the most popular because of downloads or whatever.
Plus, I don't get the point of you saying about putting down movies or rise some movies above others... Simple example is that 15 years ago or so a movieticket was (calculated to euros) 2.5 euro; now it's 8,5 euro. Sorry but that's around trice as much, thus it's very normal to take inflation into account!
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Yes, very like it will do it. But Summer is pretty much over....kids are back to school and people are getting ready for the holiday season. Plus gasoline prices are lowering. So is still uncertain...but I personally think it will.
One more thing in the subject of piracy...
The average movie ticket in the USA goes for $8-12 (depending on the theater and area). A pirated DVD will go as far as $5.00. Also, piracy here in the US is gotten pretty bad. You can walk into any parking lot of some business and there is a guy with a box offering to sell you bootlegs of films. Here are some numbers:
$4.59 for a gallon of gas to drive to the movies.
$9.75 for a movie ticket.
$5.00 for popcorn.
$3.50 for a drink.
compare to
No charge for walking from my DVD player to my sofa seat at home.
$5.00 pirate dvd.
0.99 for microwave popcorn.
0.75 for a soda can.
Good Lord, WD, did your basic logical capabilies fail or something? Read my post properly next time.
Like I say, if you want to try use use piracy as an excuse as to WHY TDK is not as popular as Titianic fine. It's HIGHLY debateable but fine.
But that will not change the FACT that it is NOT AS POPULAR if it does not hit that nine hundred million mark. And claiming it is more popular is effectively what you are trying to say here.
So stop messing around with feeble points which just make you look silly. The base logic, truth and fact of what I have said is clear to anyone with a brain. Inflation isn't 'why TDK has done well' Inlfation is simply why its appearance of making the money it has cannot simply be directly mapped onto the apperance of how much money Titanic mnade because that is not a fair or reasonable measure.
Again.
If the Dark Knight does not make more than nine hundred million at the domestic box office, then it has not been as successful as Titanic at the domestic box office, because fewer people saw it.
Excuse that any way you like- it will still be true.
That is the entirity of the story. Everything else is an irrelevant distraction born of self-delusive bias.
The inflation 'argument' is the only relevant point to make- because that actually affects what the sales figures mean. Whereas eveeything else is just an excuse for why it does not do as well.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Sep 4th, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
When you say:
"If the Dark Knight does not make more than nine hundred million at the domestic box office, then it has not been as successful as Titanic at the domestic box office, because fewer people saw it."
Change that to "fewer people paid for a movie ticket" and cue in piracy. Yes, because of piracy the film is not making those extra movie tickets. That's not a bad argument. It has it's own legs to stand on.
"The 'inflation' argument is the only relevant point to make."
Not entirely true, as I've already mention piracy is the other factor which keeps the movie from achieving the numbers of Titanic.
Piracy isn't an excuse Ush, I'm rather disappointed that you see as an excuse rather than a factor here.
"That is the entirity of the story. Everything else is an irrelevant distraction born of self-delusive bias."
That's the entirity of YOUR story. Hence you see my piracy point irrelevant and self-delusive.
Can we agree that both Inflation and Piracy are indeed factors?
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