raiden in human form can block ray's turrets, try it out, otacon tells him to do that on codec btw. the reflexes of all the cyborg ninjas were only enhanced genetically, the cyborg exoskeleton didnt give frank or olga or raiden any superhuman REFLEXES, only superhuman STRENGTH{which translates into agility/speed as well as durability of the suit itself} their reflexes were ALWAYS their own human ones.
solidus is NOT the perfect clone of big boss, where the hell did u hear that?! solidus is the LEAST perfect clone of big boss, which is shown by his advanced aging which began before liquid or solid{liquid showd a hint of it, by his blonde hair, this was due to advanced aging, his actual hair colour is brown, just like snake} solid snake resembles big boss the most and had the most delayed advent of advanced aging. they are all chromosomally identical to big boss, but possess different alleales.
and if you havent forgotten, solids was defeated by RAIDEN. who is inferior to solid.
This is from MGS3: Existence which features gameplay added to cutscenes thus making boss battles more "canon' storywise as Snake won't start a fight in a cutscene with a knife and gun and then start using the AK in the actual gameplay battle ya know?
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Gender: Male Location: The epitome of my evolution.
Account Restricted
No... no it's not. That doesn't go with my criteria at all.
He surprised Volgin... once. And then he just stood their and started taking the hits to the face like it was nobodies business.
Hardly. Did you notice that Volgin was pulling his punches, and even then Snake was falling to the floor, dazed the entire time, etc? When Volgin finally got bored he hit and dropped him instantly.
I don't have to take anything up with Kojima. This is a debating forum, which means I have the right to tear down Kojima's backwards ass logic as much as I want, piece by piece.
KMC rules. You deal with it.
No I'm not, I'm imposing logic into a video game, I.E.: If someone gets there ass handed to them over and over by someone throughout the entire video game, then he shouldn't magically be able to beat said person in their final fight even though he's received no extra training, is missing an eye, and got his ass beat to a pulp not even two days before hand. This is also why I can not stand Bleach, and Kingdom Hearts irritates me.
that's 10million volts to the body. not only did he NOT die he was still conscious after several of those projectiles and those punches. maybe he was pulling them, but regardless its not like they didn't hurt given that Volgin's a strong S.O.B. as for not being able to fight back, Boss put snake in a choke hold right before the fight and throughout the whole seen Snake was trying to get his breath back. before he even got up, Volgin started pummelling him WITH electric shocks. getting choked by someone like the boss and then getting electricuted from blows by someone like Volgin explains why he couldn't fight back. he's was choked and then electricuted. electricity has that effect on you...you lose your coordination. heck, i got electricuted a coupla times myself changing bulbs (dumbass, i know) and just a little charge like that had me slightly disoriented. you can imagine what 10million volts would feel like. even in that torture sequence, snake didn't die despite being electricuted with those projectiles of Volgin's...he didn't even pass out.
no matter which we you look at it, it's an endurance feet.
and Snake didn't beat him in a PIS way. he got electricuted and then f--ked by his own bullets. not pis.
Gender: Male Location: The epitome of my evolution.
Account Restricted
Can you prove that he was channeling all 10 million volts through Snake's body? Considering he was pulling his punches it'd make sense for Volgin to hold back how much power he was using as well.
That's because Volgin wasn't trying to kill him or drop him. The type of punches he was using were designed to hurt but not do extensive physical damage. If Snake were to lose consciousness instantly or die then he wouldn't feel any more pain, so he wouldn't be able to "suffer". Volgin was drawing it out until he either got bored or thought Snake had had enough for the time being, then threw one full punch that wasn't held back, and dropped him. Granted, by that point Snake was essentially a walking unconscious guy.
Agreed. Snake pissed on himself; they probably hurt like hell.
It only takes a few seconds to get your breath back from a chokehold. If he had the wind knocked out of him then it'd be different, however being a choke hold is just like having a pipe on one minute then off the next. As soon as he was released from the hold a couple breaths would be all that would be necessary. Volgin didn't punch him in the stomach and the chest all that much so he didn't get the wind knocked out of him... Snake would only be out of breath for the first couple of seconds. The rest of the time he was in a daze was because Volgin's falcon paunch was hurting him.
Depends on how much electricity is being used; not the voltage so much as the current (Current is actually what kills you in an electric shock, not the voltage.
[quotr]heck, i got electricuted a coupla times myself changing bulbs (dumbass, i know)[/quote]
I feel your pain. I was standing on top of a chair changing a bulb a couple years ago and I got shocked and fell off the chair.
well, we know it was enough to make a hardened soldier like Big Boss pee in his pants. so if not 10million, then it was certianly a lot. capiche?
yeah and that big punch in the end had him swing back several feet. i actually cringed when i first saw that one. not tryin to kill him is one thing. hurting him regardless is another. we all know that even half of the amount of punishment that he gave Snake was enough to kill two people: Sokolov and the other dude (granin i think). agreed, that Sokolov was a sissy...but still, he was killed. so was granin. they were normal human beings and they were killed. rest assured, Volgin doesn't know his own strength. he was actually surprised when sokolov died. and notice that Ocelot did commend snake for surviving. it seems only a given that Snake did something that most people couldn't.
i know what you're saying though. i'm just pointing out that its a feat regardless and that idiot Volgin doesnt know his own strength.
agreed. that's the thing that was buggin me as well. right after that chokehold, Snake was disoriented and on all four, till Volgin picked him up. it doesn't make sense. but that's what i'm pointing out to you: that even before Volgin started beating him, Snake was already disoriented and unable to fight back. heck, he couldn't even stand up the moment Boss let him go.
its also the duration. why i'm inclined to believe that it was 10million is because for one we can't be sure how much he used and so its safe to assume that he was atleast using a LOT of it if not all of it. second, he was creating whole projectiles out of it. as an ex-electrical engineer, i can tell ya it takes a lot of voltage to pull that kinda shite off. it literally has to be thousands (if not millions) of volts to project electricity like that. and that goes with Volgin said himself: 10 million volts. even if it was 10,000volts its still an impressive feat given that Volgin hit Snake with those several times for a coupla seconds.
well, we have in-game talks to help us. for one, all frontal attacks on Volgin fail cuz he just deflects them. and we alll know that he turns his back to us a coupla times to recharge. also he shoots bullets at us a coupla times. all these mean, enough time for Snake to blindside him. which happens to be the exact thing Major Zero and SigInt advice as to do. so its not PIS. its Big Boss being the smart S.O.B he is.
1. ...So now we are using dramatic visual effects as supernatural feats for the Boss? Shit, if I wanted to, I could blame that shit on The Sorrow. Dude Metal Gear Rex is not that big. It is possible for a peak human like Liquid to survive that fall, and besides, I acknowledged that the Snakes MAY have some degree of enhanced damage soak or durability.
2. Rex is not "hundreds" of tons. And for another thing, why the hell are we giving Big Boss Solid Snake's feats? And nothing there says that Gray Fox can punch as hard as Volgin. With a High Frequency Blade, yeah, he could probably cut through damn near anything. In MGS3...Naked Snake did NOTHING that says he should ever be able to beat Volgin.
3. Snake caught Volgin off guard and took him down and had a gun pointed at him. Then Boss took him down. And dude, Boss did nothing very crippling to Snake. Volgin then got up, and in two hits had Snake fvcked up. And Snake fell down during that beating, Volgin just kept on picking him back up. I have SEEN the video. Snake was fvcked in two or three hits, and was unable to defend himself.
1. Yep. Just another advantage he has over Big Boss.
2. Nope.
3. Cool. Good feat for Raiden. Not Big Boss.
4. Yes, they are. Big Boss only beats him in skill.
5. He apparently is in quickness and reflexes, going by those things we call feats.
6. The Cobra Unit's members are nowhere near as powerful as Volgin by feats. The only one who is is Sorrow, and that was after death. Can't comment on Portable Ops, never played, PSP broke.
Are you kidding me? You're telling me that Raiden and Olga's human reflexes are superhuman to begin with and have nothing to do with the exosuit. Where in the world did you get this? That is preposterous.
Neither can't *continously* parry bullets without the exosuit. They can at best parry only a few bullets.
Did you even play the game??!?!?! The very first thing they mention about Solidus in both MGS2 and MGS4 is that Solidus is the PERFECT Clone and he has both dominant and recessive genes. Seriously, what game did you play? You don't even have the basics right.
And what proof do you have that Snake is above Raiden?
so a field of flowers turning blood red and the BOSS's own scars turning into three white snakes{which can also be FOUND in the fight, and are named solid. liquid and solidus snake respectively} are just dramatic VISUALS?! lmao, nice way of sidestepping the question. it was clearly supernatural, and the sorrow only appeared to be with the soul of the boss. the scars were hers, the supernatural aspect was HERS. the joy.
metal gear rex isnt BIG?!?!?! you have to climb over 4 stories to get to his HEAD{and not four flours, since each ladder is a helluva lot more than 12 feat high} . and this is when it is CROUCHED DOWN to the max. even liquid said "at this height it will kill even you!" it wasnt the fact that he CUD survive the fall, it was the fact that he CUDNT die unless snake died, it postmodernism, it the marriage of physics and mysticism. you jus cant seem to accept that.
2. now you are really full of CRAP. rex is hundreds upon HUNDREDS of tonns. it the size of a friggin building and a behemoth of thick armour and metal! ur seriosuly crazy if u think it isnt hundreds of tons.
we are not giving big boss snake's feats, we are merely commenting on the series in which snake can take on gray fox in hand to hand and what gray fox was capable of doing, dont try and turn the argument around a senseless bend to obscure it please.
in both mgs 3 and portable ops he has done a lot of things to be able to beat volgin.
3. he didnt catch him off guard,{unless u call the deceptiveness of jujitsu, catching sum1 off guard} volgin had a gun pointed at him. the boss disturbed his composure, and dominance and THEN volgin took him down by hitting him AGAIN and AGAIN, and AGAIN. it wasnt a couple of hits as u say, i can give u the video if u want. and snake only went down after the last one. and then snake wen for some PAYBACK, as he himself said.
1. no he lost with that advantage to raiden, uneless ur suggesting now that a rooki raiden{who was MEANT to be the new rookia as kojima himself said} was in mgs2, greater than the greatest soldier of the 20th century, big boss and solid snake, then i guess u have no argument
2. yep
3. big boss is above raiden in all stats
4. incorrect
5. no he isnt. play the twin snakes, ull find out a thing or two about reflexes of snake. similarly, play portable ops and ull find out a thing or two about the reflexes of big boss againt gene and null. dont reply without playing those games.
6. play portable ops, then comment. the joy is greater than volgin, postmodernism again
they are human, and thats what human means in MGS. raiden can block continuous machine gun fire from multiple tengus as well as the turrets fire fro, rays. ALSO, what do u think of SOLIDUS'S reflexes. he obviously is human, even with his suit, he didnt have a helmet on or ANYTHING which cud have enhanced his REFLEXES, and yet he blocked the turret fire continuously. so there goes ur argument. raiden can continuously parry bullets try it out against the tengu's p-90s and metal gear rays.
they never say that solidus is the perfect clone, HE refers to HIMSELF, as the perfec t AMALGAM of solid andf liquid, but you shud know, that having ANY supressive genes, is a bad thing, in this case. liquid wanted solid's purely superior dominant genes{not realising that he had the dominant genes all the time. and was biologically ths SUPERIOR clone} and yet what u learn from the MGS games is that the person themselves play a great part in becoming who they are, which is why solid was able to beat liquid despite his inferior genes, and is called the PERFECT WARRIOR for a reason. solidus WITH an anhanced exoskeleton was BEATEN by the rooki who was chosen to SIMULATE solid snake. raiden WITHOUT any exoskeleton beat solidus in combat. doesnt that tell u sumthing about solidus. doesnt the fact that he was the FIRST one to age prematurely tell u sumthing about solidus, he is the most INFERIOR clone of big boss. unless ur gonna say that a rookie human raiden was above bog boss and solid snake. u have no argument.
Skip to around 3:20.
Big Boss says plain as effin' day that Solidus was THE "perfect clone.".
Fail. GTFO.
Solidus actually never fought his best in that fight. Notice in the preparation for the fight he did not pump up his muscles to increase strength and speed.
And Kojima said Raiden and Snake are equal.
Show me Big Boss deflecting bullets.
Volgin could pop her head like that flea-ridden mutt popped her cherry when she was a kid.
Yes I am sure she was into doggy style sex...quite literally.
And Solidus was CHOSEN to simulate Big Boss.
What does that tell you?
Are you a fan of forced sterilization?
Because you are a poster child for it.
Mods please ban this liar. This statement he just pulled right out his ass. He kept it right next to his head.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Last edited by Pyron_Knight on Aug 17th, 2008 at 04:42 PM
1. No. But he has a High Frequency Blade and is a better swordsman. He severed Solidus' spine with it. Sumthin Big Boss can't replicate.
2. Nah.
3. That's bullshit. Show me Big Boss deflecting Machinegun bullets from friggin Metal Gear Ray or sumthin comparable. Goin by that Raiden not only has better reflexes, he is STRONGER. Get your head outta Big Boss' ass, you don't deserve him.
4. No it isn't. What else does Big Boss have him beat in?
5. Or you can post the proof what with the burden of proof being on you.
6. Volgin is strong enough to literally punch her head off, is much more versatile and powerful, and definately more durable.
Okay seriously, spellcheck is your fvckin friend, cause I can barely read this shit.
1. Okay. Let's just say Boss did do that. Let's just say. What in the FVCK would that do to help her in a fight!? All sending those snakes out did apparently was friggin give Big Boss some food. Useful fvcking power that is. Oh and btw...The scar turning into a snake, happened AFTER the fight.
So now Liquid cannot die unless Snake does? Bull. Shit. Considering he IS dead. Concerivably, a peak human like Liquid could survive that fall.
2. I'm sorry...But it is just that in MGS4, it didn't look anywhere near that big.
Kay...And based on what they have done, they should not be able to beat powerhouses like Volgin, or Gray Fox for that matter. Though I was originally only arguing Big Boss, YOU brought up the other Snake's, so it would be YOU who is trying to obscure the real argument jack.
Like what?
3. He just shot Sokolov, then right when he pointed it back at Snake, Snake took him down. Volgin had beaten Snake in the first few hits. He was unable to defend himself. That's a TKO in boxing or MMA rules. Oh, and Volgin knocked Snake down at least twice. Get the vid. Prove yourself wrong.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 14th, 2008 12:10 PM
Shit, if I wanted to, I could blame that shit on The Sorrow. Dude Metal Gear Rex is not that big. It is possible for a peak human like Liquid to survive that fall, and besides, I acknowledged that the Snakes MAY have some degree of enhanced damage soak or durability.
