What? Kilmer's Wayne couldn't even ask Chase out nor could he keep her interest at a date at the circus. Why she chose that wooden Bruce Wayne over Batman is beyond me but maybe the nipples turned her off too.
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My favourite Batman is a tie between Micheal Keaton and Christian Bale. I think this because they are both vastly different interpretations of Batman and both of which I like equally.
To me Keaton was the Batman that Bob Kane envisioned when doing those first stories from 1939 where Batman was a phantom esque character, Gothic, dark, brooding and of course a killer which Keaton`s Batman did in both Batman and Batman Returns. I also feel Keaton had a touch of The Dark Knight Returns Batman in him which was also I thought applied to his Bruce Wayne where without Batman he was just this guy who was so out of touch with the world.
Now as for Bale`s Batman to me he is the Batman from the modern Batman comics and some of the modern graphic novels such as Batman: The Long Halloween, Batman Year One and Batman: The Killing Joke, I also thought he had a hint of Denny O Neil`s Batman in him.
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Last edited by Mr Shindiggery on Aug 27th, 2008 at 06:39 PM
yeah its a good point and a point that has merit but its just one point.where myself and bakerboy have made several points that prove that kilmer was the second best actor to have played the role.Like you said before,keaton was a better batman and kilmer was a better bruce wayne.thats why Bale is really the ONLY true BRUCE WAYNE/BATMAN cause where keaton was a good batman he sucked as bruce wayne,kilmer while a good bruce wayne,sucked as batman.Bale on the other hand was great as BOTH bruce wayne and batman.hence the only true dark knight. also,I know I have never mentioned THIS one before,but I would say this reason more than anything says it all that kilmer was the second best actor to have played the role behind bale and thats because even thought the movie is called BATMAN,Bruce wayne is the person who makes Batman.He is the one thats the real complex character who makes Batman who he is and because of that,the edge would go to Kilmer as the better actor to have played him since unlike Keaton,he at least looked the part and at least acted like bruce wayne and not the bumbling nervous dolt he was around Vickie Vale that Keaton made him out to be.
Interesting that you mentioned that Keaton was what Kane envisioned when he first made Batman cause before he died,he mentioned that of the three actors that played him,he liked Kilmer the best cause he came the closest to what he always imagined Bruce Wayne to look like and thought he portrayed him the best of the three actors. those are good points though and I understand where your coming from.
If we can all agree on that post (Mr Shindiggery's post), then I think we can finally close the "Burton debates" chapter of this forum...
I agree with you, that Kilmer looked more like Bruce Wayne, and imo, he did better as a MODERN Bruce Wayne (from the comics of the 90s and on), but I think Keaton was portraying a different Bruce Wayne...
He was portraying the 1939 Bruce Wayne... If you remember, in his first story (Case of the Chemical Syndicate), Bruce Wayne was portrayed as being kind of detached from the world, and sorta bumbling in a charming sort of way... But when he got home, he was very brooding... I think Keaton portrayed that Bruce Wayne fairly well... But Kilmer was an overall better modern Bruce Wayne... While Keaton was an overall better Batman, imo...
But Bale trumps Kilmer and Keaton in the Wayne department... I truly believe Bale is Bruce Wayne when he's on screen, he's THAT good imo... If in the next one they give him his Begins Batman voice back, he'd be spot on, and he'd trump Keaton as Batman (right now, for me at least, they're tied for being my favorite on-screen Batman)
Bale is the best Batman/Wayne imo. Keaton is not far off though, however I do have one complaint about Keaon's Batman. I just watched Batman Returns again. Would Batman really apologise to Catwoman when he hit her?
[Catwoman is hit]
Catwoman: How could you? I'm a woman.
Batman: I'm sorry, I-I...
[she hits him]
Catwoman: As I was saying, I'm a woman and can't be taken for granted. Life's a *****, now so am I.
I found that scene a bit off and the way he apologised didn't seem very Bat-like to me
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My favourite is Kilmer. I can't deny the intensity or ability of Bale as an actor but the voice he puts on is laughable, it really is a caricature of someone trying to sound gruff and threatening and for Batman its not right at all.
Kilmers' performance is solid, he does put across the rich playboy Bruce Wayne, the private Bruce Wayne who is lonely and so uncomfortable in that big house of his. His Batman character could have been a bit more intense but his voice when in the suit is really good-not as good as Conroys' but its strong and different from the tone he uses when he's Wayne.
Most people don't rate Kilmer as a good Batman because of the minor faults of the film.
Christian Bale all the way. He has captured the true essence of Batman.
West was good in a sense, but he only captured a period of Batman and certain aspects of him. But he was very good in that Sense.
Keaton was good as the first Batman on film, and brought something new, you could argue him. However, Bale's performance and the last two movies just top his hands down. They bring in a realism that Batman has yet to fully capture in a long time. Still Keaton did have a dynamite performance, and I could see you argue him if you wanted to.
Than Val Kilmer and Clooney were enjoyable to watch when I was younger, but they obviously cannot compare to Christian Bale. Also it does not help that both there films were overall not as good as the last two.
Bale captures the three personas of Batman. Also the fact that he changes his voice when he is Batman is brilliant. This is what Batman needs to do or else someone might recognized him (Commissioner Gordon) and discover his secret. Heroes with lame disguises like Superman, or Robin or a number of other Hero's infuriate me. Bruce Wayne is a high profile guy with the money to support a career as Batman, so changing his voice is logical if not brilliant.
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Last edited by Silent Guardian on Dec 3rd, 2008 at 09:41 PM
Minor. Faults. No, no, no. The Dark Knight has minor faults (Batman's voice, probably some other shit). The Godfather has minor faults (length)! Shawshank has minor faults (though I can't think of any). Batman Forever had many, many major faults (Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey chief among them).
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That's not even beginning to mention Kilmer's flat, lifeless acting, his horrendous one-liners ("Chicks dig the car"?!?!), and his sissy-ish pretty-boy look. He was a downright horrible Batman.
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I've actually never seen him in any other role.
Though, there's no denying that it's largely Joel Schumacher's fault. Although I've come to like some of his movies (Phone Booth, for example), I doubt he honestly had his heart on making Batman movies. He squeezed horrible acting out of great actors. George Clooney, Uma Thurman... hell, I even like Arnold Schwarzenegger. But he got them to act like Z-list asshats.
you like Arnold's acting. Don't get me wrong I like the guy even some of his movies. But he is known for action movies, where he has few lines and gets to show off his bod. However, he did do a few comedy movies which I enjoyed as a kid. That being said his acting is not topnotch. But I would agree with you about Phone Booth and Clooney. Not so much with Uma. That was a typical performance for her.
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Aug 27th, 2008 07:46 AM
also,I know I have never mentioned THIS one before,but I would say this reason more than anything says it all that kilmer was the second best actor to have played the role behind bale and thats because even thought the movie is called BATMAN,Bruce wayne is the person who makes Batman.He is the one thats the real complex character who makes Batman who he is and because of that,the edge would go to Kilmer as the better actor to have played him since unlike Keaton,he at least looked the part and at least acted like bruce wayne and not the bumbling nervous dolt he was around Vickie Vale that Keaton made him out to be.
those are good points though and I understand where your coming from. 
