no she didnt, which is WHY she brought about the time compression, to COLLECT the power of all the sorcerresses, and dont forget that she FUSED with griever, taking his power. absorbing all of space and time isnt the same. it like using the power of the universe to amp urself up and destroy the universe. necron had the power to destroy existance by default, even when the universe was alive and well.
Sorry guys, but Kuja isn't more durable than Sephiroth.
His durability feat was surviving a shot from Bahamut, on the Iifa Tree. Well... Cloud did the exact same think in AC, and Sephiroth's durability is much above him.
Not to mention that Sephiroth can regenerate parts of his body.
About Omnislash Version 5... That was a spiritual attack, that hit Sephiroth's soul directly.
Show me Kuja or Kefka surviving an attack like that. Oh wait, you can't.
That's true:
The Tutorial's description of Time Compression:
Time Compression - "A complete mystery. Various states of "present" are believed to become compressed. Sorceress' power from many generations may cross over to give 1 sorceress great strength. No one knows what effect this may have on regular human beings.
Information presented when using Scan on Ultimecia, during the final battle:
A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses.
But lets stop talking about Ultimecia. She isn't part of this thread.
I don't know who wins this fight. Kuja could teleport Seymour and Seph to the center of the sun or another dimension, but Sephiroth could just speedblitz him before he can do that.
Sephiroth could use his illusions to distract them, but Kefka would just get pissed and destroy everything with the LoJ.
But Seph could turn intangible and then... You got the idea.
Many things could happen, there are too many variables.
Kuja survived a Direct attack from Bahamut.
Cloud, with Aerith's help, managed to go/phase THROUGH it. BIG difference IMO.
A) No Cloud = no omnislash. Omnislash is irrelevant.
B) It only proves that Sephiroth CAN be killed, even is his strongest form.
C) The Invincible was NOT able to draw/absorb Kuja's soul when Garland leveled Alexandria.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
Last edited by UltimaKuja on Oct 18th, 2008 at 07:38 PM
there is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference between AC bahamut and friggin FF-9 bahamut. FF-9 bahamut was single handedly destroying the entire white dragon army andwwud have destroyed alexandria with reletive ease. also, NORMAL kuja, survived the shot from invincible which destroyed the eidolon alexander and garnet's home among other worlds. TRANCE kuja is on such a ridiculously different level of power that all those feats are irrelevant and pale in comparison to his planet busting power{and with EASE mind u}. the guy destroyed the crystal of creation!
and just because omnislash was magical/ethereal doesnt mean it was an attack on the soul.
1) Cloud survived a direct attack from Bahamut, and was able to dissipate the blast. That's something more impressive than what Kuja did IMO.
Not to mention that if you slow-down the video of that FMV, you can see the attack didn't hit Kuja directly, but it just hit an area close to him. He was very close to the explosion, but NOT at the center of it, like Cloud was.
2) Aerith is dead. Outside of using Great Gospel to cure Geostigma, she isn't able to help anyone. She is just a spirit, an intangible being.
Her appearance in the Bahamut Sin fight was just symbolic. All members of Avalanche were there, and then she appeared to remember Cloud that she was there with him too.
3) My point about Omnislash Version 5, is that it could Kill Sephiroth, only because of it's nature.
Cloud turns intangible and phase through Sephiroth's body, attacking his soul directly. Sephiroth isn't able to block an attack of that nature, but neither are Kuja and Kefka.
Like Sephiroth, Kuja and Kefka are very powerful in the physical world, but they don't have any "special shield" around their souls, protecting it.
Omnislash Version 5 would destroy Kefka and Kuja, if it hit them.
4) Garland NEVER used the Invincible to absorb Kuja's soul. He used it to attack Alexander, and that's all.
And even if Garland tried to do that and failed... So what? The Lifestream tried to absorb/dillute Sephiroth's soul too, and failed.
5) FFIX Bahamut have nothing that makes him superior to other Bahamuts.
He destroyed a fleet of airships made of WOOD, destroyed a small section of Alexandria with his fire-balls, and had his ass kicked by Alexander.
If you had played other FFs, you would know that any other Bahamut could have done that.
6) The Ultimania explains that Kuja and Zidane(probably Mikoto too), have the ability of absorbing souls to increase their power. And that's what Kuja did on Terra. He absorbed the souls of the Invincible to increase his power.
It have nothing to do with his durability.
7) Kuja isn't a planet-buster. He didn't blow-up a planet, he just destroyed the surface of it.
And he didn't destroy the Crystal. He used Ultima to attack the party in front of him... The Crystal was behind him.
I'm not saying that Kuja is weak, far from that. But anyone with good knowledge on FFIX and FFVII, knows that Sephiroth is superior to him in the physical department(durability, physical strength, speed, etc).
Cloud, WITH AERITHS HELP, went through it. There was no explosion, so you cant really say he survived anything.
Even then he needed EVERYONE ELSE to gain the momentum to get that high up.
Actually, Kuja survived more then one shot from Bahamut.
[b](please log in to view the image)
THREE attacks are clearly on course to hit Kuja.
One explodes in front of him, no argument there. BUT TWO OTHERS ARE RIGHT BEHIND IT AND DO HIT HIM!!
Since they ALL do splash damage you could say all three hit him, but in fact only 2 are direct hits.
Cloud is CLEARLY struggling to go fully through Bahamut's attack.
Aerith helped him through it, just like everyone else helped him to even intercept it.
Proof of Cloud turning intangible? He just looked fast to me.
Proof he attacked Sephiroths soul? Something official perhaps?
Im not saying that Kuja or Kefka has some special soul-protecting ability/shield, but I AM saying that weather it could kill either Kefka or Kuja is merely speculation on your part.
The Invincible DOES collect souls, since you don't see Kuja order it to, its logical to presume that it automatically tries after it is used.
Another flaw in your logic.... why would either Kefka or Kuja ALLOW Cloud the opportunity to use it? Sephiroth was arrogant and off-guard, NEITHER Kuja or Kefka would be.
First part explained above.
I was simply stating the only example I could to defend Kuja.
Anyway, soul killing/stealing/damaging attacks ain't a problem in this thread, right? Why argue over it?
Firstly, Bahamuts flame attack is by far its most powerful, its clearly obvious Bahamut could of leveled Alexandria/Midgar much quicker.
Secondly, Alexander it a SUPERIOR summon. It would own ANY incarnation of Bahamut just as easily.
Thirdly, if you had played FFIX you would know Kuja ORDERED bahamut what to do. Kuja was trying to draw out Alexander, it was his goal, which he succeeded in doing. He can't gain Alexander if Alexandria gets annihilated, can he?
Absorbing souls makes you stronger. Trancing makes you EVEN STRONGER.
I think its illogical to say his durability would stay at the same level as his normal form.
Firstly, Mikoto and red both say he destroyed a planet.
Mikoto: (on Terra) "But Garland is dead Terra will soon be destroyed"
Amarant: (On the airship) "Do you really think he perished with Terra" (Both "Perish" and "Destroyed" have been used to describe Terra's fate)
Mikoto: (AGAIN, at blk mages village) You saw Kujas power, he destroyed a world by himself..."
Its a FACT, a god-damn IN-GAME FACT put there by the games creators. Just like when you say something Bugenhagen says is a fact EVEN THOUGH in reality he couldn't know them things.
Just as Bugenhagen is a "guru" for explaining things in FFVII, Mikoto and Amarant are temporally "gurus" for explaining what happened on Terra.
You deny one "guru" you deny them ALL. You can't have your cake and eat it on this issue.
Edit: The fact ultima destroyed the crystal shows just how powerful it can be, destroying something with the shockwave of the attack from that range. I think that was the point.
Well no one is really saying Sephiroth is weak.
Kuja is superior in Magic (Magic attack, magic defence), however I disagree with you on durability for said reasons.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
Last edited by UltimaKuja on Oct 19th, 2008 at 02:02 AM
Seymour is probably the weak link here (not that he's weak, he's incredibly powerful), but Kefka and Kuja are huge powers that Sephiroth will need assistance against, probably from someone like...gee I don't know...Sin, who's basically Jecht. Sin has amazing feats from over 6 different FMVs from Final Fantasy X.
You say tomarto, I say tomato.
There is ZERO basis for claiming Mikoto AND Amarant are lying/false/exaggerated, just because you have a lame dictionary definition. Why can't you just accept that the characters say it because it happened?
Since we ain't gonna agree on this, lets just agree that its a hella lot more then Sephiroth accomplished, shall we?
My basis is ingame quotes from the characters.
And the fact you can't ever go back there.
Your basis is you want Sephiroth to look superior.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
What are you talking about? You are the one assuming that "destroyed" means "blown up" which is false/wrong/bogus/fictitious/etc
I never said they were lying did I? What they said IS correct, Kuja did destroy the planet, but he did NOT blow it up. Destroyed does not equal blown up, comprehend. Since we did not see the planet get blown up, we cannot assume it did.
Sephiroth accomplished stopping an attack similar to if not more powerful then Kuja ultima, with sheer willpower.
He also accomplished taking control over the entity Jenova, and the source of the entire planet.
He also accomplished reviving himself after the game, and probably will revive himself again.
Scroll up please. I said "Destroyed" I did not even mention "Blow up", you brought that up.
Just when did he stop said attack that was coming right for him?
I assume you mean he held the energy back? Kinda different.
Well if this is a feat of... something.
Then so is Kuja absorbing and taking over the thousands of souls he did.
Naturally you would say such a thing. I really see the long line of Kadaj's just waiting to turn into Sephiroth.
Even if he did, he would just get crushed again. Not exactly a winning record Sephiroth has, is it? Your stating this as a feat? Of what? His ability to loose?
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
I assumed thats what you were pushing for since you got so defensive when SHM said he didn't blow up the planet.
Just what difference does it make if he stops an attack going at him or going towards the meteor? Is it supposed to be harder? Because it isn't. If you're capable of stopping a bullet, what difference would it make if the bullet was going towards you, or going towards your friend? If you can stop it, you can stop it, thats the bottom line.
And what did the souls grant him? The lifestream is billions of souls, it contains all the souls of everyone who has ever died on the planet, its the source of energy, life, magic, power.
Kadaj is a spirit body, created by Sephiroth, so i don't see what you are referring to by "a long line" ? But anyway, you seem to be talking like Kuja didn't lose? He died didn't he? Hes gone isn't he? Too bad he doesn't have the power to will himself back to life.
Im done trying to argue about it. Blown up or destroyed, means the same thing for the planet.
Holy was not exactly shooting up in an aggressive posture, it was just rising to the surface to eliminate the threat.
It's more like the difference between stopping a fired bullet and a non-fired bullet, where the gun is aimed at you.
That's how I see it in comparison.
What did the souls grant him? Ummm, did you miss that part of FFIX?
Kuja took his souls.... just like that.
Sephiroth had to go through an elaborate plan, he didn't even accomplish.
So, Sephiroth took billions of souls? Okay, nice power boost he had.
Kuja took a few thousand.... now lets imagine him taking a billion.... Yeah.... sooooo close.
Seph needs another body and he needs that body to absorb J-cell, explain how he accomplishes this.
Did you see Kuja OWNING and KILLING his main enemies? Did Sephiroth manage that? No. He got F.U.B.A.R'd. As far as the battles went, no, Kuja did NOT lose.
No evidence exists either way. I not saying he does survive, but i'm not saying he doesn't.
All you get to go on is... "Don't go dying on me"
Excuse me..... EXCUSE MEE!? Have you seen a movie in which that is stated?
Did FFIX creators say he "CAN'T" come back?
As far as anyone was concerned when they completed FFVII Sephiroth was finished forever. Didn't stay so.
You think the same for Kuja. Okay, they ain't gonna make a movie showing it, but like Sephiroth it can happen.
Now, Kuja still can teleport Sephiroth away.
Kuja also has a TK ability himself.
Minor evidence;
When Zidane and the gang are trapped in Kuja's palace Kuja opens the floor with the lava under it on command. He also opens the cell door on command.
Major evidence;
Once Zidane returns with the stone he refuses to hand it over.
The stone then glows and floats straight into Kuja's hand.
The stone don't have a will of its own.
Zidane didn't do it.
Conclusion: Kuja used his powers to make it happen.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
No it doesn't.. if you extinguish the planets life, its purpose, and render it into a useless form, its considered destroyed. Everything it was is no more, its just a rock floating in space.
No.. Aeris summoned Holy to stop Meteor before she died, afterwards Sephiroth stopped it before it was able to destroy meteor. The example you gave would be compared to if Sephiroth stopped Holy before it was summoned which is false, Aeris summoned it already before she died.
And? Did Kuja get anymore powerful? What do you mean Sephiroth didn't even accomplish? In AC he gained power of the negative lifestream.
He created Kadaj, Loz, Yazoo with willpower, the spirit bodies, he guided his spirit bodies to take the J-cells, and with the J-cells he regenerated his physical form.
No i didn't see Kuja "owning" i saw him getting owned then going kamikaze.
Actually he was losing and when he knew he was gonna die anyway, he went kamikaze and killed himself with the party.
Sephiroth was owning Cloud with ease until the PISslash kicked in out of no where.
If Kuja was alive they would show him in the ending being alive. However Zidane was alone.
Did they say he can come back? Did he ever do anything even remotely close to that? No? Ok then.
Its just as ridiculous as me claiming Sephiroth can blow up the universe with a gesture, Sephiroth has never shown that kind of power, so i cannot baselessly claim he can.
Uhh no, see Sephiroth has always had that power since he has Jenova's will. When his SOLDIER human body was destroyed before FF7 started did he die? No. His willpower kept him alive and he reformed his body. When FF7 was over, I knew there was still a possibility that Sephiroth can come back since he's done it before, and guess what, he does come back. Even at the end of AC he hints that he'll never be just a memory hinting that he'll be back again.
But again, has Kuja ever done anything that remotely suggests he can do that? No.
And Sephiroth can just speedblitz him and straight cut off his head before Kuja can think of doing anything
All he'll see is (please log in to view the image)
before his head comes off.
So...? None of that is battle worthy, all its good for is wanking Sephiroth off.
Cloud survived Bahamut sin's blast. the much smaller one caused a big explosion and destroyed the surrounding area. and this one? Cloud survived the much bigger one which is obviously more powerful.
No, the analogy you gave was BS. You can't compare a potentially world destroying magical attack to a little projectile.
Before he absorbed souls... Kuja: "Strong enough to bury Garland. His powers are so strong I don't even come close."
After absorbing souls... Kuja: "You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone?"
Also Garland used one magic spell on Zidane and Zidane was rendered almost helpless.
Garland had enough time to try it on Kuja, but knew it wouldn't work.
Pity Sephiroth cant just materialize another "Jenova's head", which is what they was looking for to become Sephiroth.
No head = No reunion.
Owning A. On Terra, after killing Garland. The party was on the floor unable to move. They only JUST escaped because they had an airship AND because Garland distracted him.
Owning B. At "Crystal world", Kuja kills every single one of them. Kuja didn't kill himself, he survived.
Kuja's second ultima was so powerful it not only killed them all, it also destroyed the crystal that was at quite a distance. He endured the entire attack all by him self.
Lets just say you're right, for the sake of it.
Kuja sees he can't win and does the only thing he can. Which actually DOES give him the victory.
Sephiroth is so blinded by his pride/arrogance he wouldn't see it coming a mile away, which is why he ALWAYS looses.
You really proved Sephiroth superior with that one!
I'm simply open to the fact Kuja COULD of lived through the entire game.
I am not saying he did because there is no evidence he did.
I didn't exactly see a funeral for Kuja though, did you?
In the end one thing CAN be said.
Sephiroths memory is a short lived one, no one really want to remember him.
Kujas memory will live forever;
"Kuja... what you did was wrong... But you gave us all one thing... hope... we were all created for the wrong reason, but you alone defied your fate. We do not want to forget this. We want your memory to live on forever... to remind us that we were not created for the wrong reason... that our life has meaning."
Garland somehow managed to hold on as well. His conscious did not die, even after his death. Does that mean that he is as strong as Sephiroth?
No? Then kindly stop trying to use that as an excuse to promote "Sephiroth>Kuja".
If anything, I could say that since Kuja>Garland, at the end, then Kuja can hold on just like Garland did.
Though I admit it's a theory, its plausible.
Guess thats all a fanboy really needs. A little hint and you're practically hanging out the "Welcome back, Sephiroth" banners.
Thats pure fail, with a capital F.
All the Shin-ra guards...
President ShinRa...
The people he burned to death (With his little petrol can and lighter)
When has he EVER decapitated someone?
Okay then, Kefka will just poison Sephiroth.
And all sephiroth will see before he dies is...
(please log in to view the image)
Considering how powerful Kuja is... you're saying his TK is nothing? If TK is based on will power then you are wrong. Proof Kuja has a strong will.
Garland: "But 24 yours years ago, I gave life to a Genome that was very much like you. His will was too strong to make him into a proper vessel,"
I'm noticing your lacking in displaying how Seymour can help Sephiroth, this is a 2Vs2 after all.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
.. In what way is it incorrect? If a bullet, or anything for that matter, was firing, it wouldn't make much of a difference if it was firing at you, or your peer. There is no difference in the difficulty level.
So.. his power is that he's stronger then someone? But what is he capable of doing now? That is the question.
It was the Jenova cells they were looking for, thats what transformed into Sephiroth, however after the events of AC, Jenova cells still exist on the planet, its only a matter of time before Sephiroth finds another way to restore himself.
Come on now, the FF9 party has little to no feats. Cloud could probably take on the FF9 party by himself.
Too bad Kuja isn't Cloud, so Sephiroth wouldn't be arrogant against him. Fallacy logic.
No, nor did i see a funeral for Tifa's dad, but it still means he's most likely dead, after what Sephiroth did to him.
Sephiroths memory is a greater memory then Kuja's, why do you think theres so many more fans of Sephiroth then their are of Kuja?
Did Garland restore himself? No? K.
Fallacy logic, will and power are 2 seperate things.
Actually its from the producers, not just me, this was stated in the RF
Morikawa also noted that, with Sephiroth's on-screen presence, he knew his final lines had to be done properly, and with input from the director, gave Sephiroth's iconic final words a sense that "he's not done yet".
Well we don't actually see every single person Sephiroth has killed, but using common sense, if he has a sword and can kill people with it, whats to say he cannot decapitate anyone? Nothing at all.
You're talking nonsense, how would Kefka poison Sephiroth? No answer? K.
That does not mean he has a strong TK lol, that could be considered a strong will in the FF9 maybe,
But if you have a strong will as in you can actually will yourself to life, and prevent yourself from dying, now THAT is a strong will.
Kuja has done nothing special with his TK.
I'm noticing your lacking the intelligence to realize i haven't been talking about Seymour or Kefka at all.
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Oct 17th, 2008 07:38 PM
