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Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
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Dark Riddick
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see, you had me up to the win the world together for christ..

i actually agreed, till then.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2010 02:29 AM
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King Kandy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by angelistik
I'm disappointed to see so much "VO" bashing going on. My dad is a Pastor in victory outreach and my personal experience easiliy refutes every negative thing stated in this post. My Dad has given more of his time and money to the church than anyone else I know. He never complains but exemplifies the sacrificial love of Christ when it comes to giving in any way. In every church there are going to be some who have negative experiences but that cannot be said for every individual. There will never be a perfect church. No matter where you go there will be something or someone you disagree with based upon your upbringing and personal convictions.

I say, instead of bashing on other believers and churches lets encourage the good they're doing and win the world together for Christ! The enemy wants us all divided. Lets not give him such an easy victory!

Yes, with this post you have completely dispelled the perception that Victory Outreach members are brainwashed and in no way have in fact perpetuated it by blatantly disregarding all testimony outside your personal experience.


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2010 02:39 AM
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skekUng
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Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Based on everything I've seen and heard, I've concluded the Victory Outreach is a dangerous cult that preys on the poor in order to exploit them financially


Sounds like pretty much every religious group I've encountered.

Old Post Dec 9th, 2010 06:40 AM
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skekUng
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The next Jonestown/Heaven's Gate incident is gonna be caused by an organiztion like VO. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was VO itself.

About that mega-church nutcase in the Phillipines who claims to be Jesus incarnate; I wonder if he honestly believes he's god or if he's just a lying con artist putting on a show. And even then, I can't decide which is worse.


Isn't there a guy in Miami who claims the same thing?

Weren't there a dozen or so people running around the holy land claiming they were the messiah when Jesus was doing it?

Old Post Dec 9th, 2010 06:43 AM
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The MISTER
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Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by skekUng
Sounds like pretty much every religious group I've encountered.
Yes especially the ones called missionaries. These vile groups actually travel to third world countries and provide teachers and doctors to impoverished communities. The threat of death doesn't deter these zealots from their mission to exploit the weak. True scum of the earth. roll eyes (sarcastic)


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Old Post Dec 9th, 2010 06:30 PM
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skekUng
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Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
Yes especially the ones called missionaries. These vile groups actually travel to third world countries and provide teachers and doctors to impoverished communities. The threat of death doesn't deter these zealots from their mission to exploit the weak. True scum of the earth. roll eyes (sarcastic)


Those doctors and teachers come at the expense of their native cultures and religions. It's all about getting butts in the pew.

"We're here to help you dig a well and treat your children's malaria! Oh, and while we bring our first world knowledge to your third world culture, have you ever heard of Jesus Christ?"

Old Post Dec 9th, 2010 08:19 PM
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King Kandy
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Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
Yes especially the ones called missionaries. These vile groups actually travel to third world countries and provide teachers and doctors to impoverished communities. The threat of death doesn't deter these zealots from their mission to exploit the weak. True scum of the earth. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Yeah, and that's all they do, amirite?


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Old Post Dec 10th, 2010 01:41 AM
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The MISTER
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by skekUng
Those doctors and teachers come at the expense of their native cultures and religions. It's all about getting butts in the pew.

"We're here to help you dig a well and treat your children's malaria! Oh, and while we bring our first world knowledge to your third world culture, have you ever heard of Jesus Christ?"
I thought you just stated that it was about preying on the poor and exploiting them financially. Now you're pointing out the evils of digging wells, curing malaria in children, and sharing a message of hope that you sincerely believe. SAD.


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Old Post Dec 10th, 2010 02:16 AM
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The MISTER
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, and that's all they do, amirite?


Of course not. Realistically though I believe most of them are sincere in their desire to help others. A good example to use is doctors that are in it for the money only shouldn't represent all doctors.

Some people believe doctors are all evil opportunists. I think that most of them are heroes.


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Old Post Dec 10th, 2010 02:21 AM
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skekUng
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
I thought you just stated that it was about preying on the poor and exploiting them financially. Now you're pointing out the evils of digging wells, curing malaria in children, and sharing a message of hope that you sincerely believe. SAD.


It is sad. Didn't I point out that you do expect a paycheck, in this life or the next one? Yeah, you are the easiest people in the world to see through.

They are dying. You should be ashamed of yourselves if you see your desire to extend charity as an opportunity to rob them of their culture and religion and make you feel better about your religious choices by getting them to agree with you for clean water and medicine.

Old Post Dec 10th, 2010 08:18 AM
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King Kandy
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
Of course not. Realistically though I believe most of them are sincere in their desire to help others. A good example to use is doctors that are in it for the money only shouldn't represent all doctors.

Some people believe doctors are all evil opportunists. I think that most of them are heroes.

I think if they were really heroes, they should be building wells without feeling like they need to earn spiritual brownie points by converting people.


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Old Post Dec 11th, 2010 12:25 AM
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The MISTER
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think if they were really heroes, they should be building wells without feeling like they need to earn spiritual brownie points by converting people.
You're suggesting that they are missionaries who really don't care about the people that they're working with. You really believe that most of the missionaries that travel abroad to war torn countries have sinister motives? They likely believe that they are NOT hurting people when they are sharing their beliefs, but helping them. Also the physical assistance that they give is not withheld from those that don't accept their religious beliefs. If that does ever happen I'm sure that it's not the norm, just that there are always exceptions from the norm. Sorta like how pit bulls are not truly vicious killers but the exceptions are all we hear about. Most missionaries hearts desire seems to be passionate about helping people in whatever way they can. Just like most pit bulls are good dogs.


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Old Post Dec 11th, 2010 12:43 AM
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King Kandy
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
You're suggesting that they are missionaries who really don't care about the people that they're working with. You really believe that most of the missionaries that travel abroad to war torn countries have sinister motives? They likely believe that they are NOT hurting people when they are sharing their beliefs, but helping them. Also the physical assistance that they give is not withheld from those that don't accept their religious beliefs. If that does ever happen I'm sure that it's not the norm, just that there are always exceptions from the norm. Sorta like how pit bulls are not truly vicious killers but the exceptions are all we hear about. Most missionaries hearts desire seems to be passionate about helping people in whatever way they can. Just like most pit bulls are good dogs.

I never said they had a sinister motive, at all. They believe that they are "helping" people, in two ways: they do good works to help their lives get better, and they give them eternal life by converting them. You want to completely emphasize the positive effects of the former while ignoring the negative effects of the latter.


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Old Post Dec 11th, 2010 01:01 AM
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The MISTER
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
I never said they had a sinister motive, at all. They believe that they are "helping" people, in two ways: they do good works to help their lives get better, and they give them eternal life by converting them. You want to completely emphasize the positive effects of the former while ignoring the negative effects of the latter.
I can't see the negative effects of the latter since I believe that they are telling them the truth about the teachings of Jesus. I'm not ignoring that some missionaries may only have their personal glory in mind and are attempting to "win" souls like a badge of honor. I actually started talking about missionaries because most are not preying on the finances of the poor, and someone posted that every religious group that they knew of did. The Victory Outreach place and many other religious groups may prey on people.....but certainly not all of them.


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Old Post Dec 11th, 2010 03:43 AM
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skekUng
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Have you ever heard the joke about the CNN reporter that heard about an old Jew that went to pray at the wailing wall, every day, at the same time, for 40 years? She thought it was interesting and waited for him the next day, at the given time. She asked him what he was praying for and if he thought God would answer it. He responded that he prayed for world peace and that he was starting to feel like he was talking to a ****ing wall.

Old Post Dec 11th, 2010 05:41 AM
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Symmetric Chaos
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
I can't see the negative effects of the latter since I believe that they are telling them the truth about the teachings of Jesus. I'm not ignoring that some missionaries may only have their personal glory in mind and are attempting to "win" souls like a badge of honor. I actually started talking about missionaries because most are not preying on the finances of the poor, and someone posted that every religious group that they knew of did. The Victory Outreach place and many other religious groups may prey on people.....but certainly not all of them.


It doesn't have to be all of them for it to be a problem.

If Alice exploits 99 people and happens to help 1 person along the way she's still a monster. A smattering of good acts doesn't make up for systematic abuse.


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Old Post Dec 11th, 2010 05:52 AM
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The MISTER
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It doesn't have to be all of them for it to be a problem.

If Alice exploits 99 people and happens to help 1 person along the way she's still a monster. A smattering of good acts doesn't make up for systematic abuse.
I used missionaries as an example because they are usually sincere. They help more people than they exploit. As far as churches go I believe it is hit or miss concerning the leaders sincerity. Exploitation is likely the goal of LESS religious groups, not more. The reality is that the ones that do negative things get far more attention. smokin'


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2010 09:23 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
I used missionaries as an example because they are usually sincere.


You can sincerely want to help someone and do them a great deal of harm. That's part of the reason controversies exist about "Good Samaritan" laws that protect people who act with good intention even if they happen to needlessly cripple someone.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
They help more people than they exploit. As far as churches go I believe it is hit or miss concerning the leaders sincerity. Exploitation is likely the goal of LESS religious groups, not more.


Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if religious charities and missions did more good than bad on the whole. However we're not talking about the generic case, we're talking about the specific case of Victory Outreach.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The MISTER
The reality is that the ones that do negative things get far more attention.


Absolutely but keep in mind that this is true of almost everything. You have to do something mindblowingly good to get attention.


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Old Post Dec 12th, 2010 10:59 PM
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EZEKNOWS
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When I was 'busted and disgusted' in Puerto Rico a friend made a call to Pastor Sonny and two days later Victory Outreach picked me up at LAX and sooner than later, things changed, I changed. No, it wasn't over night. After getting on my feet I relapsed BUT there they were again, lifting me up and sent me to Phoenix and during my struggles they were ALWAYS there. Their patience and their instilled God's love paid off. I've been clean for many years. No, the rehabs are not perfect. Many times "staff" members are other clients with some love and potential getting on their feet as well. They have little or practically nor formal preparation, just the willingness to do good after many years of causing heartache and suffering upon themselves, their loved ones and... their victims. Yes, they lack professionalism, I did, I'll readily admit. There aren't enough finances to to hire professionals in most V.O. rehabs. Is it better to just close down. Throw them all back into the street? Back to hungar, drugs, despair, prostitution, deseases and epidemics, crime, abuse.. Or... feed and harbor them, even though the rehabs, directors or untrained "staff" are either still growing or lacking experience and professionalism. I've been living a clean and sober life for over 20 years than to the fundamentals instilled in me at Victory Outreach. I didn't agree with all the rules and rehab doctrines. I knew that some of the untrained "staff" were more like crude "trusties" still dealing with their own problems. But that's all the rehab had, the ones that could be somewhat trusted. When my time came. I was honored that someone would deposit trust in me again. It was the beginning of the my journey back to where I belonged. I've been working in rehab here in Puerto Rico for the last 20 years. During that time I was rearrested for a parole violation of crime I committed many years before, before I entered Victory Outreach. While incarcerated I maintained my values. Those inmates that knew the "old negative me" saw something different. I was well respected in the past but now I earned a different respect, one of true quality. even by the prison guards that at first expected nothing but headaches and problems. I had to once again adapt to "jailing it" but I handled myself like I learned to do in Victory Outreach. I was named by the prison population as the head of "El Comite", a inmate commitee that negotiated prison disturbances and conditions with the institution's warden and officials. God blessed my faithfulness and the Parole Board reinstated my parole priviledge. Thank you Pastor Sonny, Pastor Phillip LaCrue, Pastor Charlie, Cathy and son Fred and his wife, the late Pastor Saul, Bob Hernandez.. thank you all for caring about me when I didn't care about myself. And a SPECIAL THANKS to all those untrained "staff" residents and for your very important role in 'sharpening' my endurance. Without you guys it wouldn't have been possible. God Bless you ALL

Old Post May 17th, 2011 05:48 AM
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King Kandy
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Reminds me of the rehab from "A Scanner Darkly".


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Old Post May 17th, 2011 11:28 PM
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