Yes, with this post you have completely dispelled the perception that Victory Outreach members are brainwashed and in no way have in fact perpetuated it by blatantly disregarding all testimony outside your personal experience.
Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
Yes especially the ones called missionaries. These vile groups actually travel to third world countries and provide teachers and doctors to impoverished communities. The threat of death doesn't deter these zealots from their mission to exploit the weak. True scum of the earth.
Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
Those doctors and teachers come at the expense of their native cultures and religions. It's all about getting butts in the pew.
"We're here to help you dig a well and treat your children's malaria! Oh, and while we bring our first world knowledge to your third world culture, have you ever heard of Jesus Christ?"
Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
I thought you just stated that it was about preying on the poor and exploiting them financially. Now you're pointing out the evils of digging wells, curing malaria in children, and sharing a message of hope that you sincerely believe. SAD.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
Of course not. Realistically though I believe most of them are sincere in their desire to help others. A good example to use is doctors that are in it for the money only shouldn't represent all doctors.
Some people believe doctors are all evil opportunists. I think that most of them are heroes.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
It is sad. Didn't I point out that you do expect a paycheck, in this life or the next one? Yeah, you are the easiest people in the world to see through.
They are dying. You should be ashamed of yourselves if you see your desire to extend charity as an opportunity to rob them of their culture and religion and make you feel better about your religious choices by getting them to agree with you for clean water and medicine.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
I think if they were really heroes, they should be building wells without feeling like they need to earn spiritual brownie points by converting people.
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You're suggesting that they are missionaries who really don't care about the people that they're working with. You really believe that most of the missionaries that travel abroad to war torn countries have sinister motives? They likely believe that they are NOT hurting people when they are sharing their beliefs, but helping them. Also the physical assistance that they give is not withheld from those that don't accept their religious beliefs. If that does ever happen I'm sure that it's not the norm, just that there are always exceptions from the norm. Sorta like how pit bulls are not truly vicious killers but the exceptions are all we hear about. Most missionaries hearts desire seems to be passionate about helping people in whatever way they can. Just like most pit bulls are good dogs.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
I never said they had a sinister motive, at all. They believe that they are "helping" people, in two ways: they do good works to help their lives get better, and they give them eternal life by converting them. You want to completely emphasize the positive effects of the former while ignoring the negative effects of the latter.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
I can't see the negative effects of the latter since I believe that they are telling them the truth about the teachings of Jesus. I'm not ignoring that some missionaries may only have their personal glory in mind and are attempting to "win" souls like a badge of honor. I actually started talking about missionaries because most are not preying on the finances of the poor, and someone posted that every religious group that they knew of did. The Victory Outreach place and many other religious groups may prey on people.....but certainly not all of them.
Have you ever heard the joke about the CNN reporter that heard about an old Jew that went to pray at the wailing wall, every day, at the same time, for 40 years? She thought it was interesting and waited for him the next day, at the given time. She asked him what he was praying for and if he thought God would answer it. He responded that he prayed for world peace and that he was starting to feel like he was talking to a ****ing wall.
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It doesn't have to be all of them for it to be a problem.
If Alice exploits 99 people and happens to help 1 person along the way she's still a monster. A smattering of good acts doesn't make up for systematic abuse.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Victory Outreach-a cult exploiting the inner city
I used missionaries as an example because they are usually sincere. They help more people than they exploit. As far as churches go I believe it is hit or miss concerning the leaders sincerity. Exploitation is likely the goal of LESS religious groups, not more. The reality is that the ones that do negative things get far more attention.
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You can sincerely want to help someone and do them a great deal of harm. That's part of the reason controversies exist about "Good Samaritan" laws that protect people who act with good intention even if they happen to needlessly cripple someone.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if religious charities and missions did more good than bad on the whole. However we're not talking about the generic case, we're talking about the specific case of Victory Outreach.
Absolutely but keep in mind that this is true of almost everything. You have to do something mindblowingly good to get attention.
__________________
Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
When I was 'busted and disgusted' in Puerto Rico a friend made a call to Pastor Sonny and two days later Victory Outreach picked me up at LAX and sooner than later, things changed, I changed. No, it wasn't over night. After getting on my feet I relapsed BUT there they were again, lifting me up and sent me to Phoenix and during my struggles they were ALWAYS there. Their patience and their instilled God's love paid off. I've been clean for many years. No, the rehabs are not perfect. Many times "staff" members are other clients with some love and potential getting on their feet as well. They have little or practically nor formal preparation, just the willingness to do good after many years of causing heartache and suffering upon themselves, their loved ones and... their victims. Yes, they lack professionalism, I did, I'll readily admit. There aren't enough finances to to hire professionals in most V.O. rehabs. Is it better to just close down. Throw them all back into the street? Back to hungar, drugs, despair, prostitution, deseases and epidemics, crime, abuse.. Or... feed and harbor them, even though the rehabs, directors or untrained "staff" are either still growing or lacking experience and professionalism. I've been living a clean and sober life for over 20 years than to the fundamentals instilled in me at Victory Outreach. I didn't agree with all the rules and rehab doctrines. I knew that some of the untrained "staff" were more like crude "trusties" still dealing with their own problems. But that's all the rehab had, the ones that could be somewhat trusted. When my time came. I was honored that someone would deposit trust in me again. It was the beginning of the my journey back to where I belonged. I've been working in rehab here in Puerto Rico for the last 20 years. During that time I was rearrested for a parole violation of crime I committed many years before, before I entered Victory Outreach. While incarcerated I maintained my values. Those inmates that knew the "old negative me" saw something different. I was well respected in the past but now I earned a different respect, one of true quality. even by the prison guards that at first expected nothing but headaches and problems. I had to once again adapt to "jailing it" but I handled myself like I learned to do in Victory Outreach. I was named by the prison population as the head of "El Comite", a inmate commitee that negotiated prison disturbances and conditions with the institution's warden and officials. God blessed my faithfulness and the Parole Board reinstated my parole priviledge. Thank you Pastor Sonny, Pastor Phillip LaCrue, Pastor Charlie, Cathy and son Fred and his wife, the late Pastor Saul, Bob Hernandez.. thank you all for caring about me when I didn't care about myself. And a SPECIAL THANKS to all those untrained "staff" residents and for your very important role in 'sharpening' my endurance. Without you guys it wouldn't have been possible. God Bless you ALL