Here is a list of Jacen/Caedus's feats, I am aware that not all of them are combat related.
Outdueled Vong warriors in combat without the use of the force in balance point, not even on himself to augmenet his speed,strength.etc.
-In "Star By Star" Jacen used his gift to communicate with animals, to influence several Voxyn into attacking Vong Warriors instead of the jedi strike team on the mission to Myrk.
-Defeated Vong an unarmored warrior in combat while being captive in the nursery with no use of the force, after defeating one, he killed two more unarmored with thudbugs,during which he was armed with 17 amphistaffs from the grove. Then caused a slove mob to riot inside the nursery
-Defeated armored vong warriors on the vongformed courscant also without the force.
-At the ruined jedi temple, Jacen(18 years old) attacked Vergere,Nom Anor and numerous vongs warriors with the force, via force lightning and he aslo triggered the ceiling to collapse nearly killing Vegere,and burying Nom Anor and the vong warriors alive possibly killing them.
-Jacen used the force to in "Traitor" to play a mind trick on Ganner Rhysode that had him fooled.
-In "The Unifying Force" Jacen used the most powerful version of the "force light technique "/"Oneness with the force" as seen to date when he defeated Onimi. It was stated that "He had become so powerful as to be dangerous to his own galaxy, for he could see clearly the temptations of the dark side and the desire to force one's will on others-to so completely dominate that all life would bow to him."
-In the Joiner King, he was able to "fix"Leia's future to see his force vision/message, Luke " never heard of a Jedi using the Force that way," Mara didn't like this techique either.
-He can paralyze people with the force as seen in "The Joiner King" and "Bloodlines."
-He also shown the abiltiy to block blaster fire with his hand in the "Dark Nest Trilogy" and "Legacy of the Force."
-He gave Ta'a Chume a brain hemorrhage by using the force in "The Unseen Queen."
-In "The Swarm War" he was able block turbolaser fire from a Chiss dropship with his hand, this was noted as something "Jaina and Zekk had never seen before."
-Also in "The Swarm War" Jacen created the illusion that Mara was in trouble/dying,if Luke didn't save her, when Jacen revealed the illusion,Luke admitted that Jacen "manipulated" him.
-In "Betrayal" he was able to outrun blaster bolts that tailed him.
-He mind rubbed Ben Skywalker on at multiple occasions as seen in the "Unseen Queen" and "Betrayal"
-He can hide in the force even in front of other force users. Ex: In Bloodlines he was able to startle Luke by speaking in a meeting as he entered,Luke and Mara coudln't detect him until he wanted them to. The fact that Jacen could startle Luke was "disturbing" to him.
-In "Bloodlines" he created an illusion to hide Lumiya mere feet in front Luke Skywalker in the jedi temple. Luke was able to sense but very "faintly," so he had no idea that she was standing in front of him. The next time this happened in "Bloodlines" it was not stated that Luke could detect Lumiya even "faintly" though he already knew Lumiya was back.
-In "Bloodlines" after using a "Theran technique that let him use the Force to hear remotely," Jacen was able to channel some of his force strength to his mother to help her telekenitically keep the falcon together as it landed on Coruscant. Luke notes the following in a conversation about Jacen aiding Leia: "Almost," said Luke. No, they hadn't quite done that: channeling the Force was a new one to him. "You've developed some impressive skills lately."Jacen was the only other Jedi Luke knew who could defeat Lomi Plo's illusion of invisibility. The trick was to have no doubts that could be turned against you as a diversion....................
-In "Tempest" Jacen used the force to enter Aurra Sing's mind and was able to tell/command her to "wait" when she entered the room (lightsaber in one hand and a thermal detenator in the other) with Allana in it, who Arrua was after and could find in "a second". This gave Jacen enough time to the room. When Jacen entered the room it is stated that Sing was not strong enough to get Jacen out of her mind so managed activated the thermal detanator. Jacen had to breal his concentration to get to the detanator which she "pitched" towards Allana.
-Jacen had to deal with the distraction of the thermal detanator and Allana's interference twice (the second one stoped Jacen from using FL on Aurra) though it was Allana who incapacitated Aurra witha dart it was because of Jacen that she could get so close to touch her without Aurra killing her. In the duel Jacen also kicked her in the knee so hard that it became dislocated.
-In "Inferno" Caedus was able to sever Ben Sywalker's connection to the force and the reconnect him to the force with no physical effort whatsoever.
-In "Inferno" Caedus was able to injure Luke Skywalker though it was clear that Luke was the superior fighter. The novel note the folloqing in regards to their speed: "they came together in a blinding flurry of sparks, their blades colliding faster than the eye could follow",................
-In "Fury" Caedus survived a 4v1 ambush, (despite not being healed from his duel with Luke) nearly amputated Kyle Katarn's leg but another jedi save Kyle Katarn, then he sverely injured Kyle via his superior battle awareness, and use of the force. Afterwards he decapitaed the falleen jedi Mithric. (The only jedi who knew that their mission was to plant the tracer on Cadeus was Kyle )
-In "Revelation" Caedus while on the "Anakin Solo" used the fored to influence the minds of theFondorian troops on the planet to lower the planetary shields so he could attack Fondor's capital during the battle of Fondor.(he had to locate on them planet by using theTheran listening technique beforehand)
-In "Invincible" Caedus used the force to send a surge of "Force energy" at squad of storm troppers "that reduced the electronic opticals inside their helmets to a blizzard of static." Then he would send another surge of energy into a blast doorthat went to its internal circuits and unlocked/opened the blast door.
-In "Invincible" Caedus took out the mandalorian team that was after the moff council (2 elite storm troopers who were in the room originally survived the attack) and he broke one mandalorian's armor by using the shatterpoint technique. While he was dealing with the mandos, Jaina(who shut herself down in the force) was able to snipe him in the shoulder so he only had one arm to mauever.
-Right after that he dueled his Jaina to a stalemate (despite having only one arm) who had the advantage of the illusion Luke projected so that Caedus thought he was fightning Luke Skywalker,who Caedus thought was using an alien fighting style that he never witnessed his uncle used. (because it wasn't really him) Caedus allowed "Luke" to amputate his useless arm rather then cut his throat. Jaina noted that "the loss of an arm did not seem to faze him." Despite Jaina's advatanges (the whole time they actually faught each other, Caedus thought it was Luke) she was not able to complete her mission and was in a healing trance for a week though Leia and thought she need be in it for longer. When Caedus lost his arm he was able to put a bloodtrail on his sister.
- Caedus was able to severly injure Jaina in their second duel despite the fact that he still had one arm, before the duel started Jaina stabbed him in the stomach with her lightsaber and he was interested in saving Allana's life from the nanonkiller. During the duel Jaina noted multiple times how she could not believe that he was attacking her as hard as he was due to the injuries that he had. If Caedus wanted to kill Jaina he could have killed her too in her final attack that ended his life.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Feb 2nd, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Well perhaps you should spend less time reading through random SW reference material and more time through the wisdom of my posts, because I've quite clearly stated that Bane's sub-atomic manipulations of the Force are what displays an unprecedented level of Force Mastery.
You do realise how ridiculously small subatomic particles are in relation to even a single atom, right? Even the largest of composite particles is something like a millionth the size of an atom. The two scales aren't remotely comparable.
So yeah, I'd suggest you stop crying about it. Bane's display of control remains the single greatest display we have thus far witnessed, by miles. By all available evidence, he will be able to channel his power on a small scale to a far greater degree than can be said for anybody else.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I don't want to sound like I'm biased toward Neb or anything, but there didn't seem to be anything wrong at all with what he said. Perhaps you could try to enlighten me as to why his argument deserves the 'No' of contempt.
Most of this forum doesn't think he deserves the time of day. I've, historically, went out of my way to save him from the clutches of stupidity. Well, he's a lost cause. The double standards are predominantly what killed my interest in listening to him. Ergo, he will learn to do this our way or he will simply be ignored.
And those who debate with him shall be cast out of Eden and thrown into the fiery pits of hell!!1!
Sooooo... there is nothing wrong with the argument. Plus it seems like he's trying to play the way you guys are, he just doesn't see eye to eye with you. Most of what he says makes sense if you think about.
I'm not saying I agree with him 100%, he does need to reign in his opinions and some of the things he says beggar belief ( e.g. Sion one of the greats, Yoda street level), but I think it's pretty hypocritical to ignore him even when he makes a valid point just becuase you don't like him or agree with him.
Though I do see how annoying it could be to argue with him, the guy writes a freakin bible every post.
Got it backwards there Neb. "[A] millionth" implies that it is a million times smaller. Other than that, it was a well thought out post. The only thing that you missed is that all holocrons need those manipulations to work. So everyone that has made a holocron has that level of mastery. Also: I don't know that you've established how these 'sub atomic manipulations' will help in combat. Bane was unable to deal with even the slightest distraction while utilizing this level of control. There are always distractions in combat, which will therefore prevent him from using this level of control in a battle.
That was the intended message... lol. The point was to illustrate just how greater a level of control it would require to manipulate sub-atomic particles rather than molecules.
Except nothing in the source material suggests that.
It demonstrates a level of control, which when applied in combat determines how effectively you would be able to apply your power on a small scale. Take both Darth Bane and Darth Nihilus for instance. They've both displayed a planetary command of the Force, but only one of them (Darth Bane) has displayed a truly exceptional level of control, and as such, we can logically assume that Darth Bane would be the more capable of the two at applying that extraordinary level of power on a scale that's required in a direct Force battle between two human sized beings.
I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to here.
I find hard to believe that if Belia Darzu (SP) used the same way to create her holocron as Bane(since he learned from her, btw she probably would have to learn it herself) did, which involved subatomic manipulation then I don't see that making the feat as great Neb makes it out to be. Plus if Bane knew the secret, then he would probably teach Zannah to do it, and every sith since probably used the same way(if there really were different ways to make holocrons, as Neb suggests) to create holocrons.
Resurrecting this thread for a small announcement.
I started working on my comprehensive essay of Palpatine's career in the dark side today. It's currently six pages, single spaced, and three thousand words. I don't know how long it will be when I'm finished (I'm not even close to being done), since I'm going off on little tangents to offer explanations for various dark side cults related to Palpatine.
Since this thread inspired it, I figured I'd post it here.
Feb 2nd, 2009 11:08 AM
