Aha, but I don't just think these things; when compared with the likes of you, I know these things. That's why I'm not a snob, but rather a very intelligent individual whose opinion is law. Ta-da! There's the difference!
No, I suckled my mother's nipples when I was a baby, so I can't empathize with you there. Sorry.
Now for the long and tedious...Please note that if I've already explained the error of your 'point', I'm just going to do this:
*burp*
*Bur...Oh, go on then...I'm not here to give you a plot synopsis or an intricate breakdown of the themes YOU have attached to it. That's something you can do in your bedroom just before you play with little timmy. What I have done is broadly explain why it ain't what you think it is, but them there words I gone and used be too edumakated for ye, so yer just running 'round in dem circles, ya hear?
*Burp*
Seriously, and this is from a humanitarian point of view - Get out more. Meet people. Date girls.
It's a really shit and dull movie! The dialogue made me cringe, the actors looked like they were having a great time, but it was a pity they didn't share this with the audience. Also, if you want a satire on a paranoid political thriller go watch 'Dr. Strangelove'.
Hey, you...I love it when you flirt with me.
Did you learn English as a foreign language, or do you just find it difficult to communicate?
(Rhetorical).
Go read that ^ again.
The attempted satirical content was sporadic. It was like they knew that stupid people would buy into its 'intelligence', so they just sprinkled bits of attempted satire here and there to make themselves look smart (to stupid people). They couldn't extend the satirical content because they knew the core audience (stupid people) would start drooling and banging their heads together. This is why you like it, Master Crimzon. You thought, "Woah, this has got smart stuff in...That..must...mean...I'm smart? Woo!".
Woah, Fight Club really went to your head, didn't it, boy?
Oh, dear. I've never actually stated that 'deep' movies are what it's all about. Just that Fight Club ISN'T deep. Was that simple enough?
If you want to know why Mann's movies are deeper than flash-in-the-pan sensationalism like Fight Club, then first you'll need to experience love, compassion, loyalty, friendship, revenge, adversity, and triumph. When you've checked those boxes, you'll realise why a movie doesn't need to beg you to think it's intelligent for it to be intelligent. Don't worry, I don't expect you to understand any of this yet. Come back to me when you've been out of your bedroom/Area Code.
You go to a Center For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too, don't you?
Are you still failing there?
You know what? I think I'd rather have sex with my girlfriend. Then, I'm going to go outside, see my friends, and talk to people. Thanks for the offer, though. Go you! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yeah, either that, or I already know I'm right, and I'd rather not step down the level of 'Teenage Playground Movie Debates - Fight Club is deep, m'kay'.
__________________ Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
Last edited by Ya Krunk'd Floo on Feb 22nd, 2009 at 09:36 AM
Gender: Male Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
What what?
Krunk'd, the debate is over. By pulling into the 'I have a life card', you've essentially proven you have no idea what you're talking about. Not only that, you're actually incapable of solidly defending your favorite films; the only criticism you can level at Fight Club is "Pretentious! Everybody who liked it is a teenage moron who thinks he's smart!".
The sad fact is, you simply did not get it. Now, you know you didn't get it, so that leads to insecurity- especially with your self appreciation and egotism. In order to make up for it, you attack everybody who liked it (including critics, masses, film buffs, list-makers, whatever) as being 'stupid', in order to make you feel smart. Sorry, life doesn't work like that.
I've given you the option of choosing reasoned debate. You went with childish insults (which is funny, considering you attack me for being a 'child'), fancy words, and self-congratulatory humor. In other words, you've proven your stupidity and the general stupidity of snobs everywhere.
What are you babbling about, you silly boy? I've consistently explained why Fight Club is not a 'deep' movie at all, but rather one that soothes the pretensions of the pretentious. Your only response is to propose a preposterous 'detailed debate', which would be better suited to a sweaty-palmed youth club of the maladjusted! Sadly, I am neither sweaty-palmed, maladjusted or pretentious (there's that word again!) enough to indulge your juvenile wet-dream. Therefore, as you are not responding to my points anymore unless I respond in the manner you desire, the world has informed me that...I'M THE WINNER! I WIN THE INTERNET! WOO! WOO!
__________________ Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
Gender: Male Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
No, you haven't explained why Fight Club isn't deep. You said it's sensationalistic, pretentious, whatever. What you haven't done is explained why you think that, beyond childish insults and wannabe narcissistic humor.
Lol @ "Preposterous detailed debate". That really gives one all the information they need to know what kind of person you are.
Here's the deal. You're a snob and Michael Mann fanboy. You know why? Michael Mann's movies are easy to get. They're stylish, sure, but they have little to say. Now, you see a movie like Fight Club upstaging your favorites, which leads you to bash it- both because of that and because you did not understand it.
And so much for juvenile and all that shit. The majority of Fight Club's fans are perfectly mature, reasoned critics.
Well, what Fight Club explains is the way modern society leads to psychological emasculation and feelings of alienation and emptiness among individuals. In order to invigorate what they describe as 'life', the members of Fight Club (all members of the upper middle class type society, just like the people who commited the shootings) indulge in ultraviolence. In that sense, they're similar to many people with real life disorders who describe sadism and masochism as the only way for them to remain alive.
This is, to some extent, an explanation for violent behavior among similar people in the world- the students included. Alienation with society, a hatred for its absurd norms and apparent 'fakeness' leads people to violence. It's an extreme version of the reverse effect; one thing leads to the opposite extreme.
Last edited by Master Crimzon on Feb 22nd, 2009 at 06:24 PM
Heat and Fight Club are both ****ing brilliant, and the best films from both directors. It's that simple, really. I prefer Fight Club, but, hell, Heat's also one of my favourite films. The Insider and Manhunter are both very good- and undoubtedly deep- films, so claiming Mann is just simplistic but stylish is completely missing the point. Mann's great, but Fincher's better, in my opinion.
__________________
Thanks to Badwolf for the great sig!
Oh, dear. You are a pedantic one, aren't you? However, it doesn't really fit in this instance as my summation of the movie is not dependent on a dissection of it. Rather it critiques the movie as a whole. Is that clear for you now?
How so? I know I'm right, and I know you're wrong. In a few years time you'll look back on this episode, and realise I'm right, too. At the moment, you're just too immature (mentally and emotionally) to realise it. That's why I have no interest in the little 'debate' you pathetically request.
No, dear boy. They're not. The majority of Fight Club's fans are either teenagers or retarded adults. Anyone who possess a brain capable of mature cognitive thought would agree with me. Obviously, you will dispute this, but that's only because that category (mature thought) I just stated wouldn't include you.
As for Mann's movies, like I said (and you ignored), you need to have experienced some of the world to appreciate their intelligence as their intelligence isn't served on a plate a la Fight Club. You only appreciated their beauty once you've experienced some of the emotions and feelings they contain. Then you realise how pertinently they were addressed in Mann's movies. Again, as I have previously stated, you'll realise this once you've left your mother's home, and stepped-out in the big, beautiful world. Until that day, you'll continue erroneously thinking that Fight Club is a smart movie. Don't worry too much though, these things take time.
__________________ Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
Last edited by Ya Krunk'd Floo on Feb 22nd, 2009 at 06:47 PM
Gender: Male Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
... that's right. The whole world is dumb, you're the only enlightened individual. That's a good attitude that's bound to get you far in life, mate.
Fight Club does deal with genuine emotions. Emotions of anti-conformity, anti-materialism, and a constant dissatisfaction with society; emotions of not having a genuine place in the modern world. Emotions of disappointment, emptiness, and nihilism. Everyone has dealt with these kinds of emotions, except for authoritarian right-wingers.
Miami Vice is all style, no substance, poorly made, simplistic. See! I can do that too without offering intelligent explanations!
Don't bother responding, though. Kovac is right. You're just making me hate Mann more than I already do, which is probably unfair.
E) If YKF (I really can't be bothered to spend half an hour copy out his full name) is really so mature, why is he engaging in a somewhat petty, repetitive debate? He is coming across as a little stubborn and egotistic, even if he was quite amusing at first...
__________________
Thanks to Badwolf for the great sig!
I'm not the only enlightened one in the world, but on this forum I certainly go close to being in an exclusive club.
You list a lot of things, but lots of them aren't emotions. Try again.
As I have stated numerous of times, I don't expect you to 'get' Mann's movies. They're too subtle and intellectually mature for you. All you can do is hope that one day you get there...
I've got my fingers crossed for you. x x x
__________________ Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
Gender: Male Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
I wasn't being literal. I have to admit, Public Enemies looks like it has a ton of potential. I'll try not to let my Michael Mann hatred get in the way of my perception of the film.
Then what were you being, you silly boy? Either you weren't being literal about the wanking or the shit, but neither makes much sense. Oh, dear...
I loved it up until the finale. The whole bit in the building was a bit too formulaic for me. The scene with the wolves...Awoo! Now there's some symbolism that wasn't smacked in your face like the stupid rats in The Departed!
__________________ Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
Gender: Male Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
OMG WOLVES! That's so... deep...
The Departed's genuine purpose, like Fight Club's, is carefully hidden beneath an exterior that implies otherwise. You can take them at a superficial level (the Departed is a thriller about undercover cops, Fight Club is a social criticism of American capitalism) or you can analyze the deeper subtext.
While that's the theme of the film/book (explained in part during the bathtub scene by Norton/Pitt), it really has nothing to do with a bunch teen angsty, mentally unstable and murderous fools who convinced themselves they were making a statement when they committed said acts.
Shifting the blame (or part there of) of their actions to 'modern social themes', is just silly. Millions of people get picked on in highschool, millions of people don't 'fit' into the "in crowd" etc. etc. etc., yet they don't go on shooting rampages, they simply grow-up and deal with it.
Also, I'm pretty sure not ever fight cluber was "upper middle class".
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Feb 22nd, 2009 09:31 AM
