Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
there is a summonin Pain to provide numerous summons to counter any oof orochimarus summons. Not to mention shinra tensei can easily dispose of summons as well. Orochimaru changing into his true form certainly isnt as fast as Pain saying shinra tensei. When Pain uses shinra tensei most of the field will be koed and then when he flies up into the air he will be way out of range for most people to do anything useful.
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"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Tsukuyumi harming nagato is just speculation when nagato wont even be in Itachis field of vision. If he uses it on an of the Pain bodies nagato can easily stop the chakra flow in order to break the genjutsu(which is based on the controlling of chakra).
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"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
It's more if the boss summons were weak why would Oro fear Manda, and why would Jiraiya hate to use Gamabunta because he can't control it. And why would they use giant summons to fight giant summons if they were stronger than said summons. To fight Pein's summon, Jiraiya summoned one of them that was laid out by Shinra Tensei in one-hit also.
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- Manda and Gamabunta are S-rank summons, and they'e the top dogs of their kind. The other frogs Naruto summoned along Gamabunta are not on par with him.
- There are no reason -not- to bring out summons when you're outnumbered and your opponent has a mass of summons. This migth be difficult to comprehend, but it's not.
- Yes, once again, how does this mean that the summons are in any way stronger than the Sannin or Akatsuki?
It's not a mass of summons I'm talking about. I'm talking about just one summon. And one the weaker summons compared to Manda or Gamabunta was wrecking Konoha and the people fighting them couldn't do anything to harm them during the Sound Invasion. It took another summon from Jiraiya to do anything.
Jiraiya is a good bit stronger than most of Akatsuki, and so is Orochimaru. Manda, and Gamabunta are stronger than them. And the one who is more powerful in this fight than Oro, and possibly Jiraiya hardly has any feats to say anything.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Not really, Jiraiya's genjutsu worked perfectly on the bodies. Perhaps he can stop the chakra flow, but he didn't seem to do it vs Jiraiya, and also the big factor here: remember that Tsukiyomi happens instantly, and finishes instantly. Once it lands, it's over.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
He didnt do it against Jiraiya as he was hardly going all out against Jiraiya and was never really in danger during that fight. Plus simply countering the genjutsu in that mannner wouldnt have served for good story development. However there is nothing stopping him from doing it here and we know that once that is done genjutsu has no possible way of working
Also, tsukuyumi being near instant is simply a disadvantage to itachi. It is really quite futile as the bodies are only being animated by Nagato. Unlike jiraiyas genjutsu which actually froze/trapped the bodies in a particular place, Tsukuyumi is centred more on causing psycholoical and physical pain. The bodies however are already dead and so such attacks are null and void. Also because in real time Itachi only does it for a second or two, all it will do is nearly instantly weaken itachi greatly and make him even more vulnerable in this scenario without havin any positive impact. thats if Itachi can even et Tsukuyumi on God realm who could simply hover out of range and oneshot all of them with shinra tensei.
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All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
pein cant fly forever and he he could do it so freely why did he not fly against naruto. Matter of fact I dont even think God realm can even fly it seemed more like a gravity jump to me. Look at it this way naruto took out the rest of peins bodies in a swift manner what makes you think all of the akatsuki wont do even better. All they have to worry about is God realm and shinra tensei isnt going last kill every last one of these ninja. for goodness sake Itachi's susanoo has the perfect defense and offense. His sword rips out souls.
Akatsuki:
Deidara-Bomb spamm and can fly
Konan-sharp as paper weapons
Itachi-Sharingan and all its wonders
Zetsu-Dont know yet
Kisame-Overwhelming strength and chakra
Kakuzu- overwhelming elemental control and can fly.
Hidan-Immortality and surprisingly good taijutsu skills
Sasori-multiple poison weapons and puppets plus the 3rd kazekage
Tobi/uchiha madara- Greatest sharingan powers we have seen
Sannin:
Jiraiya-Gamabunta and friends, sage mode and the rasengan
Tsunade-extraordinary healing ability
Orochimaru-Manda and friends, near immortal, knows many jutsus including forbidden techniques.
All ninja are easily s class ninja so they know how to use their abilities efficiently.
How can 5 fodder bodies and one strong one deal this overwhlmingly strong team.
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We are True Avengers
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Neither madara nor konan was included in the akatsuki team. Also I dont see how that was a"gravity jumo" or whatever that is. He was clearly flying. And no of course he cant fly forver but certainl long enough to shinra tensei the hell out of the team. Naruto taking out the other pain bodies is really of no consequence as not only is he far superior to most members of akatsuki while in sage mode but also because the main danger here will be coming from God realm who can stay out of range of most of their attacks and who usin his abilities to the fullest can one shot almost all of them. Also how in the world is Susano rippin out souls even useful? Aside the fact that it can be doded, it will be ripping souls out of a deadbody? Good luck with that. Not onl that but ITachi can only keep it out for a short period and using it at all will make him extremel weak and even more vulnerable. It would only be an advantage for pain if anything
Akatsuki
-Deidara-easily oneshotted with first fairly powerful shinra tensei, practically a non factor
Itachi-Most powerful attacks he has are more detrimental towards him than Pain, and there is also very likely to get oneshotted by the shinra tensei that kills deidara.
Zetsu-Dont knw much about him
Kisame-Has no way of reachin Pain offensively
Kakuzu-One of the few that might be useful here thouh still likely to get overwhelmed by shinra tensei
Hidan- gets incapacitated b shinra tensei. pretty useless offensively as well
Sasori- Shinra tensei takees him out and his needles will have no effect against dead bodies
Jiraiya-Likely Could be useful but even Gamabunta has been oneshotted by shinra tensei so he would be vulnerable to it as well
Tsunade- Quite useless here aside healing and she would get oneshotted
Orochimaru-Also useful here though shinra tensei would still be effective on him
So in the akatsuki and sannin practically evryone is vulnerable to shinra tensei and could get one shotted by it. then we have absorbin Pain who will be absorbing all the chakra attacks,Robot Pain, who will be shooting missles and explosives all over the place and summoning pain who will be spamming summons all of which is just to call interference.Then there is the pain that will continuosuly be reviving bodies as well.
God realm flying would put him out of the range of many of the teams members while he would still be able to attack them. Then add that to the fact that he can take the members of the team out in one shot and id sa he has a bi advantage. If he sees need to use chibaku tensei, its an auto win for him as well.
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"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
The thing im trying to say is once God relam uses that shinra tensei its over for him.
Hidan is not useles him and Kakuzu's combos are very deadly.
Sasori -doesnt only have needles he also has the 100 puppets jutsu which is anothrt thing to force pein to use shinra tensei. He also has his true body which is a formidible force in itself.
Kisame- who know he might be able to use a huge wave to catch up to god relam. Kisame also has that water lake jutsu which could have a chance of allowing him too beat Pein fodder bodies.
Itachi- Its crazy if you think itachi is going to be one shotted. he is one of the people who wiped out the whole uchiha clan.
Deidar is not the type to just run into battle either he is a master strategist. He will be the first to notice God realms weakness. And he is very good at exploiting those.
Tsunade-is not useless the first thing she is going to do is summon Katsyu(or however you spell it) and hel constanly heal as well as help defeat Peins summons.
Oro- is also good at analyzing abilities and has an array of justu not to mention forbidden ones to get rid of pein. He wil never be one shotted.
Jiraiya- is the same a formidible oponent who wont allow himself to be one shotted.
All of the people on this team by themselves might no be able to beat pein but if they work together there should be no reason for them to lose.
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Once God realm uses Shinra Tensei its over forthem not him. He was able to simultaneously take out the 3 huge sage frogs with it and its rane is wide enough to destroy an entire village. In this scenario he wont need to use one even close to being as wide as the villae in order to affect the entire battlefield. That single shinra tensei can oneshot a good amount of the team. Then those who may even survive it will be greatly weakend and have only 5 seconds before he uses it again. Moreover if he uses chibaku tensei at any point, its an assured victory
He is useless in the sense that shinra tensei will likely injure him veyr badly and make him incapable of doing anything useful. Further he relies on hand to hand combat, something which is useless against God ealm anyways if he just stays out of rane.
A wide range Shinra tensei would turn sasori into a pile of scrap. Hence he is useless here
Kisame is quite durable and might not get taken out by the initial wide range shinra tensei. However he will be hurt immensely and five seconds isnt enough for him to recover to use any kind of attack. A second one will finish him off
Wiping out the uchiha clan is really of no consequence here. Pain destroyed the entire village as well as a good part of the area surrounding it. the initial wide range shinra tensei would ko Itachi as well.
It doesnt matter if he runs into battle or not, There is nowhere on the battlefield where he can escape the range of shinra tensei. He is also put down.
She actually is quite useless as long as pain lets off the first wide range shinra tensei before she starts to summon anyone, (which is bound to happen). Even if she herself survives by using her chakra storage and healin powers, she certainly wont be able to heal evryone in five seconds(since she wouldnt have even summoned katsuyu yet). Therefore Pain will have the chance to use a second shinra tensei before anyone gets up and she would definitely be dead out after that
Oro is quite durable but even if he isnt out complteley he certainl will be in no shape to take out Pain, let alone in the five seconds before Pain uses the attack again
This isnt about allowing urself to et oneshotted. The fact is they can do little about it. Shinra tensei took out Gamabunta and the huge frogs, it will be able to at the very least(and this is me lowballing it) affect Jiraiya badly enough to prevent an attack from him for five seconds after which if he isnt out(he likely will be anyways) he will be easily taken out.
If Pain fights to the best of his abilities and uses shinra tensei effectively he takes this team out. Then there always chibaku tensei which pretty much ends the fight regardless
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All thanks goes to starlock.
"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
How is it being instant a disadvantage? Jiraiya's didn't literally freeze his opponents, it's genjutsu, an illusion to paralyze nerves. The effects worked perfectly on Pains body. Why wouldn't Itachi's? Tsukiyomi is supposedly the most powerful genjutsu.
Jiraiya's works on sound, while Itachi's works on sight. Each Pain body that heard the sound was under the effects of genjutsu. Each Pain who looks into the eyes of Itachi should suffer the effects of Itachi's genjutsu Pain couldn't break Jiraiya's genjutsu, or perhaps he didn't even bother trying to. But Itachi's is impossible to break because like I said, once it happens, it's over. There's no way of breaking it because its done in an instant unlike other genjutsus.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
Jiraiyas Genjutsu particularly paralyzed their nerves and caused them to be unable to move at all(u could see that they were trapped in some sort of cubelike thing). The y could still communicate and were still aware of the real world but couldnt move so were pretty disadvantaged. Itachis Tsukuyumi has entirely different effects. Its main focus is to cause physical and pyschological pain to the opponent by transporting them to a phantom world controlled by Itachi. It is going to be a disadvantage to Itachi because unlike Jiraiyas genjutsu it wont have any effects for more than 1 or two seconds( or however long it takes him to actually do the genjutsu.). Thats cuz its effects are quite useless against dead bodies who have no consciousness at all and who wont even feel the physical pain in the first place.
So its exactly because its near instant that it wont be of much use here. In Jiraiyas genjutsu, the characters nerves stay paralysed even after the completion of the song. Its because of that prolonged effect even after the genjutsu was completed that it was useful in that scenario. However, as ive explained Tsukuyumi focuses on different aspects and has different effects which in this scenario against this opponent make it null and void after the second or so it takes him to do it
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"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
Once hit by tsukiyomi, Itachi can basically do anything to the opponent, its not just limited to a specific thing, Itachi has been shown to do paralyzing genjutsu as well, in Tsukiyomi everything is controlled by Itachi, in Kakashi's case, he can feel extreme pain, Or sasuke's case he can mentally destroy him. All it is, is just an illusion, Jiraiya doesn't literally freeze his opponents nerves, while Itachi doesn't literally stab his opponents. But Pains bodies will definately feel the effects, as to what Itachi chooses to make him go through. Just because the genjutsu is over, it doesn't mean the body doesn't feel the effects anymore. If Itachi wanted to destroy the bodies nerves then after the genjutsu is over, the body would have suffered the punishment the genjutsu laid on him in the world of tsukiyomi.
As for the bodies being fine after 1 or 2 seconds, that's bs. Itachi puts the body through whatever he wants it to, there bodies become useless after the genjutsu is over, there bodies aren't in shape to do anything anymore, they have to recover in a hospital bed for weeks, and that's if Itachi even lets them live. Tsukiyomi attacks the mind, as did Jiraiya's genjutsu. If one body looks into Itachi's eyes, all the bodies look into Itachi's eyes. Nagato would feel the effects as well.
Last edited by Terryc250 on Mar 22nd, 2009 at 08:10 AM
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
The times Itachi has done Tsukuyumi, he never did anything as precise as disabling or affecting their nervous system. Who did ITachi paralyse in the real world after usin tsukuyumi? He would have had to do this in order for the idea that he could replicate the effects of Jiraiyas genjutsu to have any substance. Further, in the case of Jiraiyas genjustsu, the pain bodies where actualy trapped in a cube in the physical world and hence couldnt move at all. Itachi has never shown abilities to have such physical manifestations in the real world.
Also the physical damage that the bodies go through in the Tsukuyumi world does not manifest in the physical world. Kakashi did not have any holes in his body after Tsukuyumi nor was he even bleeding. Infact Kisame called it "the genjustsu used to breakdown ones spirit". That description as well as its method of operation as seen on panel pretty much sums up the attack. It is focused causing great mental and subconscious pain to the individual. No physical damage is carried over (as seen in the case of Itachi whose body was still intact). So the belief that pains bodies will be to damaged to function is just false seeing as it doesnt cause physical damage in the first place. And then considering that the pain bodies cannot feel the form of pain that Tsukuyumi inflicts(they are alread dead, there is no spirit to even break down so itachi"letting them live" was never even on the cards) it will be inneffective. Further since it is a near instant attack, it will only serve in weakening itachi and wont even occupy pains time at all.
And the whole idea that Itachi tsukuyumi would somehow affect Naato or even the rest of the pain bodies is completely unsupported by anythin. Tsukuyumi is based on direct eye contact. It will only affect(and prove ineffective) the body whose physical eyes directly look into itachis. None of the others and certainly not nagato.
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"Beware trolls, know me and know fear"
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