And neither knowledge nor "use" were required in either the battle meditation or the Force Harmony; innate power, on the other hand, was. So I'm not certain what you're trying to prove here.
Feel free.
But I'm not sure what good it will do you. The Essential Guide to the Force makes it very clear that they were using battle meld. It wasn't a suggestion, implication, or an alternate theory. It's fact.
The interpretation is pretty straightforward: the Hidden One was a random, unestablished monk who spent his years isolated on a heap of rock. While that doesn't necessarily make him weak, he had neither the resources nor the Force aptitude to, on paper, be a threat to someone of Luke Skywalker's caliber. Regardless of what you want to think, Luke did struggle with defeating the Hidden One. Was it a pitched battle and could have gone either way? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that Luke didn't have difficulty.
I don't know Gideon. I read Outcast and while it seemed that luke struggled for a brief moment, he had absolutely no intention to harm, nor did it seem like he was even close to going all out. So while you keep saying he had difficulty, it doesn't represent his superiority in a negative light. Not to mention the monk's abilities were considerable.
But this is speculation, DS. Once again, it's not my contention that the battle was close; Poppunker is right. But Luke did struggle.
"The strength of the attack, of the Hidden One's energy and anger, took Luke off his feet and threw him backward. He slammed into a pillar, feeling jolts of pain in his spine and the back of his head."
Note that this is when he was prepared for the coming assault and had his lightsaber at the ready; the Hidden One was powerful enough to hurl Luke back. In fact, the only time that Luke is able to move is after such statements as "And, bracing himself with the Force," and "Luke gritted his teeth and rooted himself," and, most telling, "It was slow going, for the Hidden One's power was great."
He had to root and brace himself with the Force, even with the assistance of a lightsaber, and the gritted teeth is indication that he struggled.
I'm not arguing that he struggled, but it seems that your contention is that BECAUSE he struggled, he's not as powerful as everyone believes. IF I am right and that is your contention which I hope it's not, it's not a very good one. First you'd have to judge the quality of the opponent, and then you'd have to judge the intensity with which Luke was fighting.
My contention is that Luke struggled. Not to win the fight, but to withstand the Hidden One's attacks. There's a difference. Of course he could have won the fight with (presumably) relative ease; but what on Earth makes you suggest that he was "holding back" from defending himself? I get not going on the offensive; but he should have been more than capable of overpowering the Hidden One's attacks with more ease than what he showed.
Hey Gideon, are you sure Jacen was part of the meld during Luke's ascension? Because i recall that during the battle to shimrra's lair Jacen was in vongsense mode. And Jacen attributed his uncle's remarkable feat to "Luke's control".
I didn't "suggest" anything, I was just offering alternate explanations that are just as sound as yours. What makes you think he was going all out, or had an intention to harm? And again, you don't know the circumstances surrounding the Hidden One's power, so you can't really make that assessment.
I... am not... saying that Luke was going all out or had the intention to harm him...
I am asking how any of that would effect Luke's defense? The fact that he did not go all out doesn't mean that he would not try his hardest to overcome the Hidden One's attacks; he'd just pull his own punches.
Luke's defense struggled with the Hidden One's offense. That's the point.
But that's obvious. It appeared that you were using that as a way to state that Luke's abilities are somehow exaggerated. we know he struggled but we don't know the specific details, nor the power level of the Hidden One. All that would be useful knowledge to determine if Luke's skills are decreasing.
This needs to be clarified. While the battle meld is maintained for the entirety of the ascent to the throne room and part of the battle with the slayers, it weakens well before the end of the fight. As we all know, for a battle meld to be maintained its members have to actually be conscious.
Jaina out. This is after she pursues the Shamed One alone, leaving Jacen and Luke to deal with the seven remaining Slayers - approximately half of the original group - who by this point are fighting in concert and unison, controlled by Shimrra. They're operating under a "battle meld" of their own, so to speak:So Luke and Jacen are operating under a battle meld that now connects and draws from only the two of them; Jaina is no longer a factor. The heightened coordination of the surviving Slayers and the addition of Shimrra as a combatant are noted.
You've previously denied that Luke had been injured before Shimrra's onslaught, so I beet u.
Then there's this:The highlighted segment could be taken as evidence that a battle meld still exists, but the fact that Jacen is by now pretty much useless may indicate that his contribution to the battle meld has been diminished. Maybe.
Is there a canon source that actually asserts this?
May 18th, 2009 09:43 PM
