Slash I will state this to you since you unlike other are staying on point instead of going into why Revan can’t be used in a vs forum. I am not going to agree with you on this subject. You are correct that the fight could have been logical or illogical. However my point still stands that speculation should have some bases. We should at least be able to agree on that point.
Since the game is the only reference which in itself cannot be used our speculations should be based upon what we know about Siths and Jedi. We can do this because Revan and Malak are canon characters within the stars wars universe and not just video characters. Do jedi and sith fight with grenades and mines? (A question I have asked twice and yet to be answered.) We have an idea of some of the force abilities that Revan and Malak had. Since we have no reason to speculate that they fought other than we know a Jedi and Sith to fight in an duel why speculate differently which is ultimately what you and others are doing.
If a canon quote comes out and states that Revan defeated Malak in saber combat this still would not give us enough to put him in a vs forum but it would leave room for speculation as to his skills with a saber. Speculation that has some bases that is all I am stating.
Unless it ahs eben stated that jedi and Sith used mines and lightsabers in a direct confrontation(unlike Vestara, Xal, and Ahri in Abyss) then I highly doubt they would. But yeah, your right, we cant say he didnt, even if it makes no sense if he did.
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Why are you so eager to speculate on what happened? We aren't here to speculate about things we don't know. Start a thread about 'how would the duel between Malak and Revan have gone' if you really want to, just don't put this in a thread that says:
Revan strengths
The knowledge that we do have of Revan how would you classify him in terms of power and skill?
I could be speculating that Obi-Wan entered a podrace on Tatooine for kicks and won it, therefore this could be an additional feat to his piloting skills.
If a canon quote comes out and states that Revan defeated Malak in saber combat, I'd be so happy this crap would be over.
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If only you agreed with that point. If you did you might realize that you have absolutely no evidence that suggests that Revan used the lightsaber exclusively. If you did, you might re-orient your position to one that is based upon evidence. My position is that we can't have a position. There isn't enough known.
Your jab about 'on point' is poorly aimed because the question of Revan's viability as a character is immensely relevant to this discussion; we must be certain he is usable before we can use him. At this point he is not. After all: Can you quantify his ability with a saber during duel with Malak? No? Too bad.
Kazdan Paratus fights with droids. Scout fought without a saber. Vodo used a stick. It is not so outlandish to suspect unconventional tactics from a tactical "genius".
Except that we know that they could have.
Speculation that would remain as baseless and worthless as that we've been subjected to recently. Only then we wouldn't have intentionally dense literalists struggling to slay a strawman of their own devising.
Look. You're fighting an idea no one really subscribes to. The outlandish scenario presented is used to express just how vague our knowledge of that duel really was. So your fight is against no one and has been conducted poorly
maras a jedi but she used plenty of other devices in her fights besides a lightsaber and the force as has luke. a real soldier knows to use anything he can to win.
you cant prove in any shape or form that your version is more canon then mine. you cant prove that anyones version of revan is more canon than mine. you cant even prove that my version is unlikely and im restricted in the same way. so youre wasting your time trying to argue this.
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Last edited by AthenasTrgrFngr on Aug 22nd, 2009 at 12:52 AM
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Hell thanks to ms marvels argument i can simply argue that revan had the option of using conventional means to kill his opponents with blasters, grenades + force and lightsaber.
Plus don't forget Kyp blew up a couple of galaxies with the Suncrusher.
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It seems that there are many examples of fights between force users that consists of weapons other than a lightsaber. I am not familiar with all of the examples mention. If they consist of a direct face to face confrontation between two force users such as a duel than I will accept the fact that we can assume the battle between Revan and Malak could have been fought any type of way.
Then you and I are clearly of differing opinions, mine being based on the fact that even average Jedi can move ridiculously fast, much less a Sith Lord of Malak’s caliber. My opinion is based on a simple belief that Malak (especially being supercharged by the Star Forge) is more than capable of easily deflecting away the shrapnel of a grenade, probably with little to no effort.
I’m not really sure what to say here. I believe the only thing I can say is that you apparently know nothing about logic, at all.
Wrong, parsimony is perfectly acceptable in this situation. You can’t just dismiss Occam’s Razor whenever you feel like it.
Sorry it took me so long to reply to this, I didn’t actually see it until now.
The biggest point being that Malak was able control the Star Forge without getting devoured, when a Dark Side Bastila very clearly mentions that without Revan or Malak to maintain the Star Forge, it atrophied and stopped working. She also clearly mentions that other Sith tried and got consumed, leaving me to believe that it takes someone of reasonable power to control the thing.
And before you bring up the whole “Dark Side ending not canon” don’t, because I’m going to destroy that right now. The Light Side ending does not take an opposing stance to the Star Forge requiring someone strong in the Force to operate (it doesn’t any take stance since the Star Forge gets destroyed). Ergo, my point is still valid.
Can I accurately place Malak on any specific place on the power scale? No, I can’t (nor am I trying to), I’m simply saying that he’s no pushover and certainly not while on the Star Forge, where we have a statement from Drew himself that Malak was getting a serious boost just by being on the Star Forge. That was the point I was making way back when all those pages ago and it’s still the point I’m making now.
I don’t see how any of this is relevant. He fired on Revan’s ship because he had a wonderful opportunity (and probably knew Revan would kill him otherwise) to do so. In fact it makes sense since earlier Revan had removed his jaw when Malak challenged Revan directly (Campaign Guide) so I’m not even sure how this a valid reflection of Malak’s power at all other than to say that he wasn’t as powerful as Revan (which we already knew).
I base Revan's power off his duel with Malak on the Star Forge, because Malak is no pushover to begin with and on the Star Forge he's considerably more powerful. The fact that Revan prevailed is a fair indication that Revan is rather powerful (and therefore not a complete unknown), which is all I've been saying this entire time.
Please see above where I mention that Malak managed to keep the Star Forge from devouring him. Oh and there is the fact that he managed to stay in power until Revan came along and killed him; which means that he managed to keep the other various Sith Lords in line, no small feat I think.
Oh and please don’t fall into the trap of Ms. Marvel over there and misuse and/or butcher logical terms.
Simply put, we hear that Revan is powerful because he beat Malak, and Malak is powerful because he froze Revan.
No, to address this: Prove where it takes considerable power to avoid being devoured by the Star Forge. Your only reason so far is that it devoured other Sith. however, they were nameless sith with possibliy miniscule power themselves, so that is a TERRIBLE argument.
Besides, the Star Forge is destroyed in the light-side, Canon ending, so what are you talking about exactly?
Finally, you said Malak was powerful because he managed to keep "the other Sith Lords in line, no small feat I think."
Well, apparently you think wrong, since the most notable Sith we see that he had to "keep in line" was Darth Bandon, a no name, and the worst Sith ever.
Truly, until the powers and strengths of their minions is defined, no one can use Malak and Revan's control over said minions as a gauge for their own respective powers.
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well then you overrate revans abilities as well as the ability of most jedi imo.
notice however that instead of acting like a pseudo intellectual jackass like many people on the internet do im going to merely say that youre certainly entitled to your opinion and it may even be right. im made up of enough awsomesawce in real life to not feel the need to flex my muscles on the internet.
then dont say anything. just go back to RoK where you belong and talk about how cool the ancient sith are with your buddies.
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Last edited by AthenasTrgrFngr on Aug 25th, 2009 at 09:37 PM
Aug 21st, 2009 08:09 PM
a real soldier knows to use anything he can to win.
