And I'll admit that eliminating the gravitational constant from the numerator and denominator, while algebraically sound, is not sound for the intended calculation. (I already admitted that, indirectly, but I'll directly admit it.) On top of that, the original calculation was just simply wrong. (I admitted that already, as well.) I needed to incorporate the actual time used against the "mass" of the train to calucuate force, not calculate based off of a guessed force, which I originally did. In my defense, I was trying to replicate previous results by working them backwards. I came up with 9000 newtons or something (which was also wrong).
To my credit, I redid the calculations for a rigid train and static forces over the acceleration event, and came up with a generally correct result. However, that calculation does not account for the force the engines were supplying at the beginning, nor does it account for the complete stop of the engines at some point. The negative acceleration event was quite dynamic. Robtard explained that the engines stopped because they stalled when Spiderman started to really apply some force.
Anyway, back on topic, we now have 5 instances of me admitting fault, in this thread alone. The idea that I never admit I'm wrong should be soundly debunked, right?
More on topic:
Ridley Prime: I appreciate the very respectful manner you have debated this with me. Your logic has been sound. Before this thread, I didn't really talk to you much. Now, I respect you as a poster. I look forward to future conversations and debates.
As far as the topic goes, Ridely Prime, how do you know that Vegeta didn't know about King Cold? Did he ever go "who the eff is that" or something similar? No.
However, he didn't recognize his Ki at all. He didn't even acknowledge it, really. Is it possible that Vegeta could tell that Frieza had gotten stronger due to his intimate knowledge of Frieza...thus explaining why Tien detected a "stronger ki's" than Frieza's? That would certainly bridge the gap between cyborg Frieza being much stronger than before while accounting for less Ki due to being mostly cyborg. The intimacy portion with Vegeta would explain why Vegeta said Frieza was stronger (cause he could "tell" somehow that his cyborg augmentations made him stronger whereas, Tien, only had training with detecting Ki.)
In the end, Frieza was referred to on multiple occasions as the strongest in the universe from multiple people. This cannot be ignored. Either Tien's comment was out of place (pis) or misunderstood (my explanation.)
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Last edited by dadudemon on Nov 4th, 2009 at 04:35 AM
so yeah, to bring this back to the main plot of this thread, frieza transforms once just for security, then immediately kills cap'n ginyu. the rest are non-factors.
@ dadudemon: Well, I suppose I won't argue about the validity of Tien's statement anymore, as it'll only keep dragging things out. Whether King Cold's stronger than Frieza or not though, he's still in the same league as his son in terms of Ki/power, so it would be hard to tell the difference between them anyhow. At least based on this.
"One of these monsters is hard enough to handle! Now there are two!"
Even Vegeta thought the situation there was hopeless based on what he said at the end, and not just because of Frieza apparently...
So I guess we can just leave it at that.
And thank you for the complements & acknowledgement. ^^
It actually takes time for Frieza to transform though, as we've seen (especially when it came to his final/true form). Captain Ginyu could probably use that time to try and change bodies while Frieza's still in the middle of morphing to his next form. Otherwise though, Frieza dominates.
1. Because we have never had any indication that he did and will not assume so?
2. Assumptions, the statement was not that complex and pretending it was is wishful thinking, also, his "intimate nature?" Just because he knew Freeza, by some magical empathetic link he could tell he is stronger? Do you even buy your own bullshit? None of this was even implied.
3. Multiple people who did not know Cold, or was Freeza himself, who, like any DBZ villain, is prone to gross overestimations of their own power. Tien's comment is the only non-biased comment regarding Freeza and King Cold's power while they are together for as comparison.
Toriyama has said in many interviews that he wrote DBZ one chapter at a time and NEVER thought ahead about what would happen next. Which quite literally means, if a character had not appeared in the Manga yet, he was not created yet. Nobody claimed that Toriyama "forgot" King Cold. Because you quite simply cannot forget something that doesnt exist yet.
Lets face it, the facts put against COMPLETELY disprove all of your very very tame evidence. You have no proof besides concieted talk from Frieza and some crap King Kai said before King Cold was even created by Toriyama.
Show me one scan...Just one...where someone outright says that Frieza is stronger than his father. Lets see it.
We've already seen one where Tien outright states that Frieza is with someone who is even stronger than him. Which is quite obviously King Cold.
Also...show me one of Frieza's "abilities" that would make up for his "low ki". Not that it matter's because we all know Vegeta said himself, that Frieza was stronger than before. Do you think he was refering to some unknown technique? No, its not possible because the only thing Vegeta or any of the other Z Fighters can sense is KI. So if Vegeta says Frieza is even stronger without even seeing him, that means that his Ki is higher than before.
Actually, we have indirect proof. Vegeta didn't act suprised. He didn't say anything about King Cold's presence. Don't you think he would have said "ZOMG! Another one I didn't know about!"
He didn't.
Yes, it makes sense. How could Vegeta tell freeza was stronger when most of his body was machine? You do know the "ki" comes from life, don't you? I explained this to you once before. The only way Vegeta could have known that Frieza was stronger is if Frieza actually trained his organic form to be stronger than it was before, in addition to the upgrades.
Since that's retarded to assume that, we can just assume that Vegeta could "tell" somehow that Frieza was stronger, despite his actual Ki being lower.
This has been covered already, by me. I don't see why we are going over it again.
And, I've already explained how Tien's comment is still correct while Frieza is still stronger.
Again, one comment from Tien that is easily explained by Frieza being mostly machine versus multiple comments from multiple characters, one of them the friggin Kai. Seems like a no-brainer, to me. Obviously, Frieza is stronger.
Oddly enough, there are two ball-shaped food items next to the donuts
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I want proof of one time where Vegeta knew of a characters abilities before seeing them or hearing about them. Because I sure as hell dont remember Vegeta being psychic....Are you sure you we watched the same Dragonball Z? I was pretty sure there was only one...But you have me thinking otherwise now..
1. No, that is because by the time we saw him he had already sensed them approaching, when we see him he is waiting for them. Tien actually commented on King Cold being stronger, directly. If you don't read the series, do not argue it.
2. You explained it even though you were wrong? 16 is completely inorganic, and he has Ki, EVERY Android has Ki, they only possess a special kind of Ki that is untraceable. Something Freeza's Ki, or even part of it, was never proven to be. Your entire argument is based upon sloppy conjecture, that Freeza is the same as the Androids.
Your empathetic link with Freeza theory is retarded, it was never so much as implied, occam's razor asserts that the decision that makes the least assumptions if usually the correct one, you are assuming Freeza was like the androids, you are assuming Vegeta has a telepathic link with him (Lol), you are assuming Tien was lying/wrong, you are wrong.
3. I accept your concession on this point.
Only your shitty explanation is based on a theory and not actual proof from the manga.
Kai never said Freeza was the strongest in the universe, get over yourself.
I would also like to note that if Frieza's ki had indeed appeared lower due to his cybernetic body parts. I really think one of the Z Fighters would've commented on the fact they couldnt sense as much ki as before.
I'll just throw this out there. Tien's statement mentions Freiza, but it could be that he was talking about the Frieza during the Frieza saga, and not the Mecha Frieza that was approaching.
__________________
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
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Nov 3rd, 2009 09:28 PM
