In "mortal/incarnated" form, Hermes loses to Barry (just as Diana or Billy would); in his full-on god-made-manifest form, Hermes wins, as his speed would just mystically, and in defiance of all known laws of (comic) physics, be faster than even the Flash trascending time -- Hermes would already be a literal "step ahead" of Barry, timewise.
So, generally Barry. Circumstantially/depending on story-incarnation, Hermes.
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Somebody already posted them in (one of ) the other threads, where Hermes outpaced the Flash (granted, Wally in that specific example, but close enough); the "mortal" manifestation of Hermes' speed (as demonstrated by Diana and Billy) only accounts for the universe as it normally operates (in comic book physics, that is); in his full-on godliness, Hermes speed transcends time, when he wishes to, much like how Barry can via the SpeedForce, et al, but with Hermes having the advantage of godly knowledge, whereas Barry has already indicated that time-travel is tricky for him still (Blackest Night, either 5 or 6; don't have them in front of me where I am right now). Go look for the other threads about this/superspeeders racing: it's come up several times over the past 2 or 3 months.
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Something that often gets "lost in translation", when it comes to comics, is how things are reinterpreted over different stories/incarnations. The Flash is faster now (and was before the above pic, pre-crisis); Hermes has been demonstrated before to be faster than light in his more "godly" embodiement, such as when he out-sped Wally in The New Teen Titans Ist series - issue 4 or 5, I believe, back when both Wally and Barry could move at or faster than light; Diana was also in that cross-over story, and it was indicated that she couldn't keep up with Wally, even though she was supposed to be as fast, or faster, than Hermes. (A bit of an internal contradiction, in terms of the story, but made sense given that Diana was the "mortal" embodiment of Hermes' speed, while Hermes, himself, had his god-power to back his speed). Relative speeds and power-levels change over the years as more "realistic" (or at least believable) power expressions are traded for more fantastic ones, and then back again, as the decades pass, and story-settings shift.
People often think in too concrete, too-harsh absolutes when it comes to comics, sometimes... The medium is by its nature a study in relative flexability...
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CM has the speed of Mercury, much as Diana has the speed of Hermes; they are comparable in speed/reflex (though Diana edges Billy out in terms of applied martial-reflexes, as she is more skilled). Neither of them, however, are the *godly* embodiment of Hermes' speed; that is, while both of them are capable of moving at sub-light speeds (as Diana demonstrated when she once chased after Jessie Quick, up to the edge/cusp of the SpeedForce), and Diana has demonstrated FTL reflexes (which, granted, may be aided in some regard by the power of her Aegis-Bracers), neither of them can move faster than the speed of light (whereas Superman, and others, can run/fly at FTL speeds, via various means). Back in the late 80's/early 90's, both Diana's and Billy's flight speeds were circumscribed by the nature of the Earth, itself, as neither could readily fly into space and/or achieve sublight velocities (both could move at around 4-5 miles per second, which is the relative escape velocity of Earth's gravity; makes metaphysical sense when you consider their intrinic link with the Earth, itself...). But that power interpretation changed over the years, as did Wally's, Barry's, Bart's, Jessie's, et al. But Hermes, as a god, has consistantly been demonstrated as having the "god-advantage" when it comes to being compared to the "normal laws of physics"/"relative power of others".
Hope that helps clarify things. Sorry if it was a long-ish paragraph, but I've noticed that short answers around here are much of what contributes to relative misunderstandings...
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(Oh... right... geek...)
Last edited by tideoftime on Jan 9th, 2010 at 11:57 PM
CM gets his speed aspect from Mercury, who was the avatar-aspect of Hermes (as established bach in '91 during the War of the Gods); both he and WW have "Hermes Speed", as relative to the nature of the world/universe (an obtuse way of basically saying "They're pretty much as fast as we want to make them, but not quite as fast as The Flash, et al.") Neither of them could have the *true* speed/power of Hermes without usurping his godhood, and therefore backing their speed with godly-power to "make things the way I wanna make'em"...
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However fast he needs to be. Only another god/similarly "divine" being whose aspects of power included speed could match Hermes' "speed" (I would say, as I did in the one other thread about speedsters, that someone like the Runner, who's movement defies celestial bodies, would certainly be in that category, as would, say, the Silver Surfer's *movement* powers through space, when he's traversing the galaxy).
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Jan 9th, 2010 05:12 PM
