I could care less what your troll ass thinks about me. Just remember, I would report you everytime you misrepresent a scan and spew a lie. Do you honestly believe that anyone believes in the crap you are spewing? I pity you.
I'm thinking of several instances now where I seem to remember red sun de-powering happening instantly with Superman and Supergirl, but yours are instances worth considering. Ultimately, as I mentioned before, you're GOING to find inconsistency when you take examination to a certain point, simply because these are works of fiction.
Explanations come after the fact in comic-world not before.
At any rate, you wrote the following just a page or two ago ...
I need to remind you: I am arguing Wonder Woman has a relatively pure physical STRENGTH advantage.
I am NOT, and I have said this repeatedly, am NOT arguing that she has an advantage in speed, or toughness, or durability, or heat resistance/invulnerability anything of that sort. She doesn't.
Withstanding atomic bomb blasts is not a measure of strength. Certainly that ability can go along WITH having physical strength and usually does in comics, but they are quite separate. Ditto for being able to withstand the heat of the sun's centre and that sort of thing.
I've explained this, and you agreed with as much before, yet still, even from you, I keep getting examples that try to conflate invulnerability with strength, making absolutely no distinction whatsoever.
Obvious then, since I repeatedly keep getting this response, I need to show cases where Wonder Woman has proven superhuman strength even AS she was vulnerable.
I suppose this would count as part of "basic concepts",
"how powers work" (Wonder Woman is specifically granted great strength from the Greek Pantheon in any given incarnation, among other powers, which do NOT explicitly mention much about invulnerability), and
"character limitations" in at least one interpretation of the phrase,
from the list I've been posting for my criteria almost from the first response to P.R.
So, again, finding it necessary to remind people that there is a difference between strength and invulnerability, some instances of Wonder Woman showing superstrength even AS she demonstrates vulnerability ...
Wonder Woman succumbs to gas. She is strong; she is still vulnerable. After being knocked out by gas, she comes to, and, finding herself chained to a wall with Trevor and tons of stone collapsing on her, she breaks the chains holding her, supports the tons of weight above her long enough to get both of them free, and immediately proceeds to battle the Japanese army.
Strength, even superstrength, is NOT invulnerability.
Oh, and apologies, Salsa -- I've lagged overmuch in maintaining reference information for all these.
Previous submission (Wonder Woman gassed by Japanese Princess, breaking chains of self and Trevor, supporting collapsing tons of wall/ceiling/stone/whatever, then battling Japanese army)
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Source: Sensation Comics #24, Volume 1
Writer: William Moulton Marston
Penciller: Harry G. Peter
Date: December 1943
--------------------------------------------------------------------- http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Sensation_Comics_Vol_1_24
Submission of Supergirl grabbing Superman and slamming him into a tree a page or so back:
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Source: Supergirl #2, Volume 6
Writers: Michael Green & Mike Johnson
Penciller: Mahmud Asrar
Date: December 2011
--------------------------------------------------------------------- http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_6_2
These feats, so very impressive-sounding, obscure the fact that they are NOT something pure physical strength alone, not even INFINITE physical strength, could help a character get past.
Wonder Woman typically demonstrates superstrength AND vulnerability in the same story.
For instance, that scene with the train which you admitted was a nice feat earlier, has the following as its setup:
Note that, in the space of only 3 pages, Wonder Woman is knocked out TWICE by sleeping gas. (vulnerability)
I recall at least 1 showing where early Superman proved more or less immune to gas, in fact, had fun with a group of criminals who tried to hurt him while he was "knocked out" by gas and found they could not do so. (invulnerability)
Again, Wonder Woman vulnerable, Superman invulnerable.
But the fact still remains that Wonder Woman is superstrong.
Her being vulnerable limits what she can DO to EXPRESS her strength; it does nothing to preclude her actually being stronger than a less vulnerable "tank", however.
Reference information for the "Case of Duke Dalgan" contained in the dotted lines at the end of this post.
I'll mention briefly here that the "masquerador" seen in that first scan a few posts ago, before Diana got gassed by Dalgan, was Wonder Woman's own mother, Hippolyta.
This has significance regarding "how powers work", Wonder Woman's specifically, which I'll soon cover.
This scene also happens to have significance regarding the "popular consensus" that you alluded to before and a VERY strong suggestion that popular consensus if often WRONG, but that it takes careful thought and research to challenge it.
At any rate, I plan to revisit that story, along with what I just mentioned, as soon as my schedule permits.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Sensation Comics #26, Volume 1
Writer: William Moulton Marston
Penciller: Harry G. Peter
Date: February 1944
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Sensation_Comics_Vol_1_26
Probably my last submission for the day, the case of "killer" DOGAN (as opposed to Duke DALGAN).
It can be argued that gas was a special attack; warranted to note that even the mundane force of someone hitting Diana with a pistol to the back of the head could knock her out, despite her simultaneously possessing tank-busting, mountain-moving, saving world from planet-cracking menace level strength. Along with a few other powers.
Physical strength is what I'm primarily focusing on, but it is worth noting that she demonstrates great speed in her actions below ...
Paula's mercy: The case of "killer" Dogan. Scan 1 of 3.
Note that despite having the speed to beat a hail of bullets already being FIRED from a Tommy Gun BEFORE the bullets have a chance to leave the barrel, (superspeed)
and despite having the strength to apparently fuse the gun barrels together upon so doing, (superstrength)
Wonder Woman is taken out much as any other person would be, by a gunbutt to the back of her head.
(Vulnerability DESPITE superlative strength; hallmark of Wondy through MOST of her career.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Wonder Woman #12, Volume 1
Writer: Joyce Murchison
Penciller: Harry G. Peter
Date: Spring 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------- http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_1_12
"How powers work" is probably the most complicated feature of either character. Wonder Woman's power sources vary over the years; so do Superman's.
Important consideration this one is, though: it suggests what the maximum potential of either character might be.
For Wonder Woman that lists seems to be as follows:
1) Exercise.
2) Will and/or brain power.
3) Pantheon magic.
For Superman:
1) Gravity.
2) Gravity and yellow sunlight.
3) Psionics.
Not until now had I encountered anyone making a case worth a moment's consideration for "Supernatural lineage" for Superman. Interesting, to say the least ...
The case of Superman and gravity is fairly well known, the motif 1st used to explain him during this time.
For Wonder Woman however, it seems to be the case that AT THE START, her power was due to a COMBINATION of factors.
Exercise, will, AND magic. Hard to reconcile; Marston himself seemed unsure of how to explain her; what route he most wanted to pursue. I'll likely be re-examining this one a couple times, because the comics express the case for all 3 sources mentioned above, and which one takes precedence seems to depend on the story needs.
Here's a showing in favor of "exercise" being the primary component of Wonder Woman and/or "Amazon" strength ...
I'll be moving on to later decades before too long, which will be where the competitions asked about by the original poster will naturally appear for fill-in.
But this early period deserves fairly thorough examination.
It's what informs you that Wonder Woman was DESIGNED to match or exceed strength against Superman.
It's what tells you she had strength feats equaling or surpassing his.
It's what informs you of the source of her strength and suggests the level her feats can and did reach (I have found, not having read ALL of Wonder Woman's stories, that it is possible to "predict" what will be seen in the stories that are "gaps" in any particular collection.
I browse the web sometimes to see how similar "Superman v Wonder Woman" discussions proceed. I have no idea why I seldom if ever see anyone actually post Wonder Woman strength feats, even if the discussion centers on the Golden Age. It's really somewhat disconcerting.
At any rate, I promised to show several to establish her performing on Superman level at the outset.
Here's again one I don't recall seeing, though it should be the most natural thing to find in a feat/fight versus/strength thread ...
This is my standard of saying that she is not stronger, when He actually decided to act, she was just competing with someone who seems physically stronger and faster.
I'm not sure why other people have jump into it, but believe me, I have seen very good debaters for Superman in the vs forums and I believe they just like to stay there, because things move faster in there.
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