wasnt directed at you. this thread has gotten pretty full right now i didnt feel the need at 1st to quote the person since he knows who he is and how rude disrespectful he has bn in this thread and to others..
Remembering it doesn't make it canon. Superman remembers killing Wonderwoman and shattering her bracelets in two blows in an alternate reality adventure in Superman/Batman. Those are separate events in an alternate universe involving an alternate reality character (two actually, since that's an alternate reality Wolverine also). Wolveirne can kill a god when he's possessed by the Hand of God. Which in the past, originally vanquished said god. Gamora can fight Ronan without any such powerup. The comparisons don't compute.
wolverine wasnt possess by the hand of god he was god's chosen champion had bn for various incarnations of his life it was no power up it is who he is.. that's like saying Gamora can't win without her powers b/c it is a power up. she is who she is power and all.
like i said stabbing and cutting supported by current 616 showing
I suggest you reread the Gehenna Stone Affair storyline. The original Hand of God was empowered/sent by God to smite Ba'al. Which he did. Wolverine has never manifested those Hand of God powers again, before or after the storyline. Those powers only manifested when Wolverine literally prayed (something he hasn't done in ages). Convenient one-time plot device power-up =/= Wolverine's innate power which he can switch on whenever he wants. Gamora's powers are her powers. They aren't predicated on one-time plot device powerups. Translation: "I was misinformed by the rules concerning non-canon feats, but I'll back-handedly suggest I'm still right somehow." Mkay.
Logan has nearly killed Namor without taking damage. Also, Thor did grab and toss Wolverine but it had no effect whatsoever. The two hander had little effect - and Logan decided HIMSELF to stop the fight because he realised that Sabretooth doesn't levitate. He was fully capable of continuing the fight but decided not to. Which proves two things
a) A two-hander from Thor is only enough to slightly daze Logan
b) A lightening strike from Thor can break Logan out of a spell..but not much more
Furthermore, Thor hitting Logan was more Logan's doing than Thor's via CIS - Logan decided to jump on Thor's back - if he actually knew who he was fighting that would be less likely. All Logan has to do is stay on the ground and he can easily kill Thor - it's not even that hard at this point. But of course, we are talking about a contest in which Thor doesn't actually USE HIS POWERS (except for strength and hammer) so I dunno what the problem is. He clearly kicks Logan's butt if he resorts to powers right away.
Anyway, NOW we can get back to the topic.
Seriously, do you have anything aside from the Ronan fight to back up that Gamora is MORE SKILLED than Wolverine? Maybe you could post some scans? I am actually open-minded but I need evidence.
I actually have read the issue - and to suggest that he was possessed is just flat out making up crap, dude. Seriously, he was blind and he PRAYED TO GOD, and then struck the stone which gave him the win iirc.
Wolverine was not "powered-up" as you are suggesting. Also, I think we are getting the whole "reincarnating spirit" thing more from the Weapon X novel. Again, iirc.
^ Wolverine was possessed by the Hand of God. Post the entire fight if you like, as it's fairly evident from the illustrations, not to mention the convenience of Wolverine turning around the fight as soon as he prayed to God for assistance. I don't have scans atm. This is the same Hand of God that was empowered by God to smite Ba'al when Ba'al pissed God off per Ba'al's origin. Doesn't make one-shottiong Namor in the driving rain any less impressive than knocking out Logan. Thor could toss him into orbit or into the East River or into New Jersey for a BFR win. Had Thor not been trying to track down Wolverine and discover what was wrong with him, he might do so in an actual fight since he has a penchant for BFR'ing. Or Thor could just slam him onto the ground repeatedly via the effective Bam-Bam technique.
That shot by Mjolnir was able to daze him. Had Thor followed up with another shot (or several) or any of the techniques I mentioned above, he would have just as easily won. Wolverine would never jump on Thor's back to slash him if he knew it was Thor? Thus, Wolverine should never be tagged by Mjolnir? There's a gap in disjunction that could be described as canyon-like.
Gamora makes frequent/habitual use of exacting pressure points (except against Ronan, so I guess Ronan got it easy per some posters' arguments). Gamora also has equal mastery of armed and unarmed techniques from AT LEAST 83.4% of known space faring cultures per the Worldmind. Of course, whether that's greater skill than Wolverine depends on whether or not you still think that Wolverine is master of all the universe's martial arts because of the speculation that he retains martial arts knowledge from past Hand of God incarnations... which somehow equates to 100% of the universe's martial arts... I've already explained to you why your citing from a non-canon alternate universe doesn't mean anything other than a violation of the forum rules. Wolverine scratched Thor in their fight. Repeatedly. No qualms about that.
Logan not being affected by the hammer sounds like either PIS, or suggests Thor was seriously holding back.
Remember that Thor's hammer lets him bust planets on physical strikes. That's a lot more than your average class 100 can put out (Hulk would need to be pretty pissed off to do it), and Logan's been koed by less...
if thor went all out with a planet busting hammer strike no doubt logan would be knocked the F#@@ out or sent flying through earth to space.. but usually those lvl of blows are accomplished by a magic discharge or amp of the hammer.. never seen plain no glowing hammer destroy a planet.. also thor rarely uses those blows on an earth person including hulk.. CIS..
Actually, outside of flight speed and hammer twirling, Thor's speed feats are actually pretty much on par with Wolverine's. In fact in terms of combat speed Wolverine's feats are arguably more impressive. The idea that Thor's flight speed has any relation to his combat speed isn't something that has been verified on panel.
__________________
Play League of Legends for free and reference me - GentlemanZombie - when you join
Wolverine was not possessed by God in his fight with Ba'al.... Thought I know Onedumb likes to make things up on the fly.
And yet Ronan....
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Last edited by jinzin on May 11th, 2010 at 06:54 AM
I've already explained to you why your citing from a non-canon alternate universe doesn't mean anything other than a violation of the forum rules. Wolverine scratched Thor in their fight. Repeatedly. No qualms about that. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thor needs incredible speed to be able to tag Logan - Logan has dodged bullets, rocket and lazers as well as Hulks blows. By Thor's own admission, Logan was in fact dodging the hammer in full swing - but like the Hulk, Thor eventually tagged Logan. Why Logan didn't go for better areas to strike is probably due to the fact that he didn't know who he was fighting.
As for PIS - why was Thor able to feel Logan sneaking up on him? Wolverine has snuck up on Daredevil with an army of smelly zombie ninjas yet Thor somehow senses him?
Okay, I agree that the blow Thor dealt to Logan SHOULD have sent him to the moon, but I also think that, given the whole point of the fight, it was destermined that Wolverine CAN take Thor out in Melee. That being said, CIS is going to get Logan tagged and if Thor is hitting him full on he can send him into space or at least into another state or another country. However, it could also go the other way.
Here is the scenario I am envisioning - Logan slashes Thor from behind jumping out of the tree - Thor blocks this like he did in the comic.
Thor then goes to slam Logan with the hammer but Logan evades this strike and counters with a strike to the juggular. Thor is now bleeded profusely and is unable to put forth his full energy into another swing. Logan proceedes to cut Thor to pieces before Thor can even react and use lightning.
To be completely fair - if Thor is serious he isn't going to melee Logan. He's going to fly up high, use winds to pick Logan up and slam the hammer into him sending him into space and one-shotting him.
Also another possible scenario - Thor hits Logan first and one-shots him. He doesn't knock him out but sends him nearly into orbit...Logan lands in Canada and they started fighting in Texas.
As for Gamora - well she has mastered 75% of the universes martial arts. That's an off-panel citation I take it which is far less valuable than actual feats. The reasons being is that these citations can be wrong - they can be retconned later. For instance, an off-panel citation suggested that Sabretooth has the skills of a bar-room brawler - but we know now that isn't the case.
Secondly, the number of martial arts you master matters much less than the degree to which you master them. Look at Cap right...Logan knows more styles than Cap but they are about equal in skill. The reason? Cap is extremely good at the ones he does know. Also, knowing all these styles can't make up for any tactical advantages Logan might possess. A kick is a kick...is a kick. Doesn' tmatter what technique you use to throw it. She can use combined styles from all over the universe, all of which can be countered with a simple punch. Unless of course she has honed her skills to having reflezes that are beyond Logans. Also, Logan's nerve strike capability is insane - he recently was displayed having UBBER level skill by crumbling a chi-amping version of THING with a casual slap of the hand. This is the same fight he beat FOUR CHI-AMPING fighters at once without using his claws (except at the end to kill his final opponent - which wasn' t needed Logan could have just punched him out). The whole time he only took one hit from Soul Striker.
Anyway, the point of this is that FEATS count way more than citations. Allow me to give you a real life example:
Lets talk about music for a second - there are many drummers who have mastered several forms of music to an amazing level - yet there are other drummers out there - who have only mastered maybe one style - Neil Peart for instance - who have far greater overall skill. It's not just what you know to the extent to what you know it. Being a specialist is often being better than the jack of all trades. In addition, Logan has experiences which have given him the ability to maximize his level of skill in the most tactical way possible. For example, beating the four Chi-amping fighters at once while only taking a single hit and using his claws at the very end. He doesn't have the chi-amping skill, yet he used his experience to beat them. The skills gained from experience are different than skills gained from training and sparring with a partner.
An even better example of this is a fight between Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson - Bruce Lee knows MUCH more technique than Tyson - Tyson knows how to box but the extent to which he knows it is enough for him to beat the snot out Bruce Lee. Potentially anyway.
Lets also not forget that Logan has a track record of beating the snot out of opponents more skilled than him - Ogun for instance had Logan pissing himself and running scared until Logan just went beserk and overwhelmed Ogun. The same thing could happen to Gamora - she may be more skilled but in the end he's just going to go nutts and tear her apart. The same thing happened recently with pslocke - she is more skilled now apparently and yet he just went b-rage and beat her.
Skill alone isn't enough to defeat Logan. Energy blasts aren't enough either. And that's IF she's actually more skilled OVERALL at fighting. That's a big if considering there's more to fighting skills than just martial arts training. Tactics and strategy factor into that too and from what I know, Logan is much greater than her in those regards.
So you see, off-panel citations aren't enough - you need to post scans of her doing better than beating FOUR chi-amping fighters at once and crumbling a chi-amped version of THING with a casual slap of the hand.
But you see you won't find feats like that because they don't exist for her. Therein lies the problem.
Again, Gamora able to pressure point the Thing and admitting she can't do it in a real fight < Logan doing it to a chi amped version of Thing with real MA skill while fighting multiple other like opponents...
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Gotta love Thor. He's the one character who fans will argue one moment he can smash Silver Surfer and Drax, and other fans will argue the next that he gets beaten down by Wolverine.
hmmmm all good points.... And she IS super strong........ shit...
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
KMC Community Forums
May 11th, 2010 05:12 AM
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
