I'm arguing with you and I actually showed the following pages to the scan in question. You make it sound like Superman made a jump in skill level like Batman did from Batman: Year One to current Batman. And I'm misleading who now? Take your bald-faced accusations and stow it. Your shift in accusing me from not knowing what era that scene took place to accusing me of overtly misleading people was nothing but a deflection so poor, it is worthy of being called a quaneuver, straight up.
And Superman's still an amateur. That's what you don't get. Nobody's going to place Clark Kent surrounded by dozens of goons with guns and expect him to be flipping around and knocking them all silly without being hurt himself. That's standard street-level, third tier MA skill fare. Cobbling several pressure point feats together to the point where you still can't make a convincing case that Superman can achieve standard street-level fair doesn't serve to prove your case. All it does is provide a red herring for it. You brought it up as a rebuttal to Superman being an amateur. He still is. And unless you want to paint every single Asgardian/Olympian as not being amateurs on a martial artist hierarchy because they have several times more years worth of fighting experience than Superman, than you've proven nothing but your capacity to cling onto red herrings for all their worth. What exactly were you relying on other than what looked like "big numbers" when addressing me -- numbers that are actually laughable when we consider the ordinary run-of-the-mill Asgardian/Olympian, let alone the greatest fighters amongst those pantheons?
I was under the impression that you were referring to Superman using his makeshift staff against Parademons as a weaponskill showing. As it stands, Superman's got nothing. A MASSIVE difference from the characters you're trying to compare him to. Mongul is an expert combatant? lolwut? Just because he tutored Superman and revealed how much of an amateur Clark was with his own Kryptonian powers doesn't make Mongul an expert combatant. Stop reverse-projecting.
Clearly you weren't last time. But as it stands, you haven't offered anything new other than, "These are skill feats that show he's not an amateur, e.g., pressure pointing idiots/jobbers who underestimated his skill, several times less combat experience than your average schnook Asgardian/Olympian." So yes, you are done. And Clark Kent's still an amateur. And when compared to the cases people and myself will build for the other characters, it will become inimitably more clear.
I wouldn't call him an amateur, but having training definitely does not make one a tier three, and yea, if it's Clark Kent vs dozens of opponents, I see him going down.
Plenty of tier 4s have been under intense training and have huge amounts of practical hand to hand experience. Tier four is still really skilled.
What I would actually like to know is what makes Mongul so good at h2h? Didn't somebody post scans of Superman beating up Mongul AND using superspeed?
To be fair we still have supeman beating up Parademons but thats not as impressive as Thor beathing up enhanced troops who were shooting at him. We still have an incident of a depowered Superman getting into trouble with several thugs and Batman having to help his arse out.
Theres this as well, they're not skilled opponents but they do have guns. Thor still kicks their arse.
This exactly the shit im talking about. Superman doesn't use one single ounce of MA here. But people are getting butt-hurt about us not considering it to be proof of Superman's MA.
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Jun 14th, 2010 08:36 PM
