You know we actually fly the Canadian flag down here in Washington. Most of the big retail stores have it next to the U.S flag. Just a little lower of course.
ya, that fear of worshiping a symbol that is most commonly used to divide people along ethnic lines
pussy canadians and their tolorance of other peoples' identities and desire not to push a culture onto new immigrant populations
oh, well, now that you put it like that. Obviously abstract symbols and how they are displayed are much more important than the physical and material well being of citizens. I am convinced, more government in my life, but only interfereing in pointless issues of display. Heaven forbid if it tries to help me.
cool? It really doesn't make much of a difference to me, though I'm sure it helps with the tourists
I don't really think displaying a flag means much... someone putting it outside of their store to entice me to give them my money doesn't strike me as being really "into" Canadiana
I must be biased, then, because I've never seen a flag pole that you had to expertly throw a flag up on some hooks to get the flag to stay up. You could try using a ladder, I suppose. You'll have to show me those flag poles that don't have a way to place up flags at different levels.
It would seem that you have dropped my whole point about adjusting flags to their proper position. In fact, it looks like you were ignoring that entire point, this whole time.
Talk me out of this point:
"If the Mexican flag was "higher" than the Texan or American Flag, the only thing he should have done is lowered it."
If you don't know flag protocol, you can look it up. There's plenty of "why"s.
Edit - Just read some of your posts (I was in the middle of typing a response to KK's post, last night, wen to bed, and started back up...you obviously had words since I posted.) Your post does assume too much. You've incorrectly assumed that I think the reasons behind those laws about flag protocol, are bad. I don't. I think they are good. I wil definitely not ever convince you of otherwise because you prefer anarchy (not a bad thing, necessarily) over a huge ass government like the US's. You see nationalism as a tool of division and anger. I don't. You can be patriotic and still love other nations and people.
Double edit - One thing you shouldn't do is go to another nation and disrespect it's sovereignty. On that same token, you should also respect the origins of other peoples, especially if your nation is a gigantic melting pot, like the US.
Triple edit - Just reread my post: my post seems a tad too derisive towards you. You are more than welcome to call me an a**hole for it...Basically, I am saying that you assumed too much about my perspective on things, or at least thought that I might see the error in my thinking. I don't necessarily thinkg you're wrong in thinking that patriotism can be bad: it can.
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Last edited by dadudemon on May 9th, 2010 at 08:33 PM
we can talk about different types of nationalism and patriotism (I would gladly define myself as a Canadian nationalist), but ultimatly, in this issue, we are talking about how the state uses otherwise meaninless symbols as a form of cultual assertion over other ethnicities and as a form of identity control over its own populace.
My sarcasm was basically that, for all the things you don't want big brother doing (like helping people), you do want it making rules about flag-poles? Actually, iirc you aren't even against state health care... I was more talking about some of the knee jerk "conservatives" who posted on the last page.
but no, it is really unlikely that you will ever convince me that it is worth while for a government to mandate and enforce where flags should be, even if we aren't talking about my anarchist ideals.
Cool. We largely agree. It's just that...I think a nation should make laws about disrespecting the official symbols of that nation such as the flag or the presidents seal.
Well, off topic...but I think it's rather silly to try and convince an anarchist about the importance of a nations official symbols. That's like trying to convince a lesbian that sex with a man is awesome. (I actually got to see that conversation take place, at work...it had many lulz.)
While I'm sure you understand the symbolism and the reasons behind it, you don't agree with the lawfully enforced reverence...which is also understandable because you feel it infringes upon an individual's free speech. It really does.
I don't really know where the line should be drawn, though, when it comes to free speech. I think that not disrespecting the official symbols of a nation is something that should not be protected with free speech, however.
but aside from identity politics, what other use are such laws?
if it isn't about enforcing an idea of "us" and "them", what possible use is there to saying that the American flag has to be higher?
lol, not a bad comparison
Actually, thats the thing, I don't understand the symbolism at all.
wow, see, with stuff like free speech, im such a radical, it isn't until you start asking about the media publishing confidental troop movements or actual encitement to violence (like, criminal conspiracy type shit) before I question whether it is a free speech issue...
I don't know what you're talking about here... all flags have adjustable height, but you can still do things to the pole that make unauthorized height adjustment impossible. Like, as I said, locking a loop at the flag string.
No, I didn't ignore it. I addressed it with the analogy I used, which you ignored. If I put up a flag outside my house, I should be able to do whatever I want with it. Because it's MY flag, not a flag that any nutcase who trespasses should have a right to **** with because it's his opinion that I did it "wrong".
What the kid did was vandalism, plain and simple. Just because you think it's patriotic to keep the US flag on top doesn't suddenly make it ok for you to do "citizens arrest" and intervene to anyone who thinks differently, any more than you have a right to violently assault someone who is desecrating a US flag.
I think we are both confused, then. Why couldn't one just undo the loop, adjust it to proper height, then restore the locking loop? (Which is exactly what I had in mind when I said I would adjust it.)
Wait....so when did we go from a government institution flying a flag illegally to personal property getting displayed illegally?
Still, it's not a case of apples and oranges...you'd still be breaking the law.
That has nothing to do with what I said. I still think you're ignoring my other point.
I've already agreed that throwing shit away was wrong.
i can understand that the students wearing the usa flag shirts just on cinco de mayo were just probably trying to prove something and compare the countries. but that's still just wrong sending them home over that. in mexico students wouldnt get sent home wearing flags of their country on an american national holiday.
At my school, the flagstring was steel fiber in rubber, and at the end was simply connected to form a loop; untying it is impossible, you would need a box/wire cutter actually cut open the loop.
While flag code does say it is illegal to display flags wrong on private property, this is paper only; the supreme court has ruled that actually enforcing said law, is contrary to the first amendment. I can point you to quite a few rulings showing that one to be true. Government has no right to enforce that, and neither to private citizens (that would be trespassing and vandalism).
Oh. In that case, yeah, I would just notify the Superintendent or the school board.
Wait, why are we continuing your strawman argument?
Why did you switch from government property (the public school), to personal property?
Keep it on track with the school, not personal property.
But, it makes me happy that you at least acknowledged that it is still illegal to improperly display the US flag, even on your private property. THat means you and I got somewhere and it's not hopeless. Whether or not it is/can be enforced is irrelevant to my point.
My point about that was: the school, since it is not private property, should have strict adherence to simple flag protocol. Agreed? I mean, I'm all for people being a**holes on their own property because I'd rather there be free speech. Though, I'd prefer they not desecrate the country my ancestors work so hard to build, I'd rather they have the ability to free speech than me enforcing my patriotism upon them. At public schools, not a chance: they don't get to break the law and not get away with it while I'm pretending to be Captain America.
Really? Even when the school is breaking the law in a very direct way, the student should still get in trouble? If that student did....don't you think that would quickly go wiped away and the faculty that "made him in trouble" would actually be the ones in hot water?
KMC Community Forums
May 9th, 2010 06:24 AM
You'll have to show me those flag poles that don't have a way to place up flags at different levels.
(I actually got to see that conversation take place, at work...it had many lulz.)
Whether or not it is/can be enforced is irrelevant to my point.
