Some McDojo's actually have legitimate training programs, but still fall prey to this. I know some gyms near me that produce decent local fighters, but are overpriced as hell or require 2-3 year commitments.
I don't think so. You'll have to play catch up with some guys, but a 20-something year old should still have plenty of athletic ability. Rich Franklin, unless I am mistaken, didn't start serious training until his 20s.
I'm not trying to sound rude, but your views on this are misguided at best.
1. I've seen people hit in the back of the head during fights and it did not stop the takedown.
2. Certain organizations have allowed those very same techniques. It did not produce the results you keep dreaming about. Well, not consistantly anyway.
3. That requires grappling though.
4. I actually prefer striking myself, but there is more to fighting than just that. If you actually understood what they were doing, it wouldn't seem like such an alien concept.
Yes, the dojo "masters" who never fight should show us all how it is done.
Last edited by StyleTime on May 16th, 2011 at 06:32 PM
I went into a training program in good faith. I didn't know much about karate, or even that there were different types of martial arts, but I did know that I wanted to learn how to defend myself.
To someone like me, whose only exposure was through TV and movies, when a school opens and you go to see the instructor, and he looks like what he does is a lot like the things you see on TV, you tend to believe that they really do know what they are doing. When the price seems reasonable and he says "you look like you're in pretty good shape, good enough I can promise you'll be a black belt in 2 years" you get excited, and you sign on the dotted line. When he offers you a 10% discount for paying cash up front, you jump at it. And then you start your classes, knowing that in just 2 years you'll be a black belt and you'll be able to defend yourself.
He was right. In 2 years I did get my black belt. I went through the test with a dozen other people, and we all paid $500 to test, and amazingly enough we all passed. We were downright proud of ourselves and each other for getting through 2 years of sweat with each other, helping each other to learn along the way.
Our classes just seemed like what a karate class should be. We bowed in, we called each other 'sir" and "ma'am"; we exercised and pushed ourselves hard to get into shape; we learned countless katas and spent hours working on special kicks.
We learned a lot.
What we didn't learn though, and didn't even realize we weren't learning, was how to use the techniques that were in the katas. We never learned to combine techniques. We never realized just because we could do these katas well, and just because we had nice looking, fast and powerful kicks, that we didn't know how and when to use them. We never sparred. None of us had ever taken any real contact.
Most of us, so damned pleased with ourselves for sticking with it for two whole years, stayed and went for our 2nd degree black belts. And then third. The only thing that changed in the class patterns was the katas we learned. But we were doing so well!
I could have stayed on that happy little path for the rest of my life if not for what happened to someone else. I wasn't even there, but it opened my eyes. It scared me so badly that I had to start reading notes posted on the Internet, and comparing what other people were saying about their schools to what was going on in mine. I even started checking out the things other schools in the area were doing.
One of the men I started class with, one of the guys who blazed his way through to black belt in 2 years and stuck with it along with me was beaten up in a way I didn't think anyone could survive. He was a mass of ripped flesh and broken bones and blood, and that was after a few days of healing. He lost the hearing in one ear and for a while they weren't sure he was going to walk again. All because he was attacked, and he thought he knew how to defend himself.
He says now that he was confident until he was hit with the first punch. All that kata practice hadn't taught him how to block effectively. We were never taught that a kata is a fight from one side and that the things we were doing represented someone else fighting us. It was just patterns we had to learn. Block-punch-kick... well how in the hell was that supposed to teach us anything when we never really knew what it was in the first place, what the movements represented, and how to counter attack?
We're not black belts. We're a bunch of well conditioned dancers.
This guy could have died. As it is he will have lasting effects of being beaten for the rest of his life. It was an eye opener for all of us, when we realized none of us had ever even taken a serious punch. Things just kind of fell into place then. We didn't spar. We weren't allowed to compete. The reason given that sport held no place in his teaching, but the truth is that he couldn't afford for us to be exposed to people in the martial arts who knew what they were doing.
A few months later, we know. We were conned. This joker left his own instructor as a blue belt with only 2 years instruction because he thought he was good enough. It wasn't good enough. His ego could have gotten any of us killed.
If you own a belt factory, please think twice about what you are doing. Your students trust you, and the rely on you to teach them well. I spent a lot of years of my life thinking I was being taught by a high ranking black belt when he was just a smooth talking jerk who couldn't stick with his own training. I thought I was about to test for my 3rd degree black belt. Now I know, after talking to people and then going to see other schools, that I am probably no better skilled than the average 1-2 year student with a orange or green belt. I might be faster and have more endurance, but they know more than I do.
I have started training now with a Chung Do Kwan teacher who is 100% different. Nothing is a given with him. He didn't promise me anything and hearing my version of How-I-Got-My-Black-Belt insisted I begin as a white belt, and he would give me ample opportunity to progress if I learned things quickly.
You know, that first black belt just isn't as attractive anymore.
I just want to be able to defend myself.
If you own a McDojo, think twice. It's not your life that might end in a bloody heap on the side of the road. Can you live with that? I hope not.
you do sound rude not that i care
1. never said it would 100% of the time
2. dreaming about? WTF are you on about never said it would 100% of the time but you're a complete retard if you don't believe kneeing a crouched person wouldnt do significant damage
3. WOW you're extremely biased im saying strikers can gain an CONT...
better position & use an downward elbow to cave a face in but cant reducing the amount of damage you can put out on the ground
4. how do i not understand grappling? again extremely biased im willing to bet you practice some grappling art.
not once did i say i flatout hated grappling
they do have many rules in place in which allow grappler to dive in worry free...
& most fighters don't even practice said illegal moves because they're illegal & no point learning them or teaching them
People people, did you know that there still are "vale tudo" fights right? The kind of fights with few to no rules? And martial arts used are still the same, boxing/kickboxing/muay thai for striking, wrestling/judo/greco-roman for general throws and takedowns, and mostly BJJ for grappling, with some judokas or sambo men eventually.
And did you ever watch the first UFC's? Just by themselves, they showed to the world what were the best MA, or at least the most effective ones.
And honestly speaking, I just can't buy that someone truly believes that a 150 lbs kung fu master is the ultimate fighting machine over guys like Fedor Emelianenko or Alistair Overeem.
Unless you concept of ultimate fighters are something like this:
I also like these next 3 videos a lot, because it's a perfect example of what will happen everytime a decent MMA fighter will fight a TMA artist (and the MMA guy was quite nice that he didn't go for GnP or even standing striking):
1. Butting with the head.
2. Small joint manipulation
3. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
4. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
5. Grabbing the clavicle.
6. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
7. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
8. Stomping a grounded opponent.
9. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
10. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
11. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
its funny alot of these illegal moves could be easily executed by a grappler at the same time making it easier to escape for strikers
It's unfortunate someone had to get hurt to "see the light." There are a lot of frauds out there doing more harm than good.
Then again, if only humans could just be nice to each other and not fight at all.
1. Honestly dude, I've never seen that stop a takedown.
2. I actually have seen a knee stop a takedown before, so I actually agree with you here. It looked like you were saying it was the ultimate anti-grapple technique. Sorry.
3. To mount a grappler and elbow him in the face, you usually have to be able to grapple yourself. Not sure how stating that means I'm biased.
4. I said that because you, not just in this thread, have made some narrow minded statements regarding effective combat. This time it just happens to be about grappling. Grapplers can't just shoot in worry free and you're including only the ruleset of a select few organizations here.
That's just an assumption. We've seen fighters use moves that weren't allowed in their respective competitions plenty of times before.
I agree, and I've brought this up before myself. I don't know why guys like Omega won't listen to reason here.
I think some of the moves should be legal as well, but that is UFC for ya. They want to appear less brutal to mainstream detractors, despite marketing themselves as such to their target audience.
Last edited by StyleTime on May 17th, 2011 at 11:06 PM
1- Vale tudo matches may allowed it. They still practise MMA. Igor Vovchanchyn, an icon to MMA (older fans still know him), the best heavyweight fighter in MMA world before guys like Nogueira or Fedor, once headbutt his way to victory from the ground. And this comes from a man who did barefists fights. He still trained MMA. And he was a 5'8 dude, talk about chi.
2- Could be used in the first UFC's. Anyway, if much, it benefits the grappler. Try to do a wrist lock from a punch of a decent boxer. You will find your nose broken. They are banned for the simple fact they cause too much injuries and most times they will not stop the fighter anyway.
3- Even nowadays this sometimes happens. And what do you mean "attacking the spine". Like what, piledrivers? But that bring us back to MMA, wrestling and greco anyway
4- Vale tudo fights
5- Why would you try to grab a clavicle? Do you even know what is a clavile or where is this bone?
6,7,8- You obviously never watched Pride do you? Ask Shogun Rua what he thinks about head stomps or soccer kicks. Chute box even specialized on that during Pride, to use against grapplers.
9- Why the kidney? And you can do it anyway. Why the kidney anyway? How will you give a heel kick to a guy's back who is conscious anyway? And you can give knees or kicks to a guys body in standard MMA fights
10- Bob Sapp, a 350 lbs, actually did this against Nogueira. He did fail his next 2 tries and were armbarred right after that. Anyway, who do you think who has the advantage on this, a karate guy or a greco/wrestler guy? Yeah, just guess who will pick you up and spike your head.
11- Happens all the time. In fact it's rare the fight this doesn't happen.
However, you are failing to realize something. A grappler can also crush your balls, stomp your head, bite your ear off etc. You seems to forget thet fact that one you are down, if you don't know what to do, you will not get back up.
Bas Rutten describes this the best. At least when you are standing with a guy, you can eventually turn back and run. Once you are on the ground there are no place to run
__________________ I have never let my schooling interfere with my education
Last edited by Darth Angel on May 17th, 2011 at 11:11 PM
And now, why do you act like a spoiled brat? Did I was rude with you?
You should have either get out of the argument or tried to answer, not acting like a insecure teenager, if you even want to discuss something like Martial Arts. The fighting world in this real world is not for kids, is for men.
__________________ I have never let my schooling interfere with my education
No, are you a retard? I know what is a clavicle, well, I have helped treating fractures in clavicle as a medical student. Now what do you know about clavicles?
And I didn't know you couldn't heel the back of a guy in the guard in MMA I just don't know if it's the best aproach vs someone who knows how to pass your guard (the gracie fought many people who didn't know sh*t about ground game).
Also good to see you only answered to 5% of my post. Anyway, I am out, just stick with your TKD.
__________________ I have never let my schooling interfere with my education
KMC Community Forums
May 16th, 2011 12:23 AM
im saying strikers can gain an CONT...
