It's simple math dude. Well simple for most of us anyways.
Frieza had a power level that was over 1 million when he reached his second form and he had two more transformations before he hit his final form.
In his final form he had varying levels of 1 to 100 percent.
Simple logic? Frieza Form II (1 million)<<Frieza Form III <<<< Frieza Form IV (at 1 percent)......
This was not just stated flat out, but PROVEN when he correctly fluxed the percentages of his power accordingly to Goku's Kiao Ken.
Like... When?
Fact: Goku proved it with Kaio Ken. Increasing the power level of a Z fighter increases speed, strength, durability.. etc.
Burta's specialized aspect was his "super speed" which we find is relative to Jeiss' who has a relative PL... and his super speed was a non factor against Goku when he arrived.
Same with Piccolo when he thought he could outpace Frieza in form 3.... He couldn't.
You think otherwise?
Prove it.
Because with the exception of Boss Rabbit, Guildo and a couple others no one has abilities that range outside the scope of power levels.
That's all there is to it.
How is that overhyping? Everything I've stated about Frieza has been 100% FACT. He was ruler of a vast wealth of the universe, regarded as the strongest warrior in the universe by a God at the time of his peak.
I don't need to overhype the character, and no one here but you needs to be convinced of anything because we're not blinded by Kenshiro's nut sack and we're well aware that he isn't beating anybody in the Z series.
Uh no... Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the Z verse.. just because other universes don't use the same measurements does not mean what they measure doesn't exist..
As if you think that because no one in FOTNS has a scouter, somehow all the Z feats are inconsequential?
Yeah, again, you're insane... or an idiot.
That's the point genious... Frieza can do that with LESS than HALF of 1% of his power...... while SUPER CASUAL... he can CASUALLY destroy a planet with one finger.... he doesn't need to "get serious" with Ken...
You're the only one crying here.
"power levels don't matter!"
"Stop using ABC logic"...
You're a complete joke kid.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Look you're clearly a fanboy, an insane, raging, delusional fanboy... possible super troll...
So I'll keep this simple.
DBZ characters are just WAY too far outside the scope of a person like Kenshiro. Kenshiro while powerful in his own right is simply far better suited fighting other kinds of characters. Fighting Z fighters will get him nowhere because they outstripped his abilities in the early part of the first series.
Bottem line: one wave of king piccolo's hand blew up a city like a high yield nuke. Kenshiro has no answer for an attack like that and he certainly doesn't have one that allows him to win here.
Z fighters are stronger, faster, more powerful and have quasi mysitical abilities like telepathy induced by martial arts skill and on TOP OF THAT have looney tunes-like abilities that include kicking eachother through the 4th wall.
Ken has no chance of beating Goku after the King Picollo fight and even you think differently you need to prove it because all you've done thus far is make an ass out of yourself.
Until you bring some proof to the table, I'm done here..
Idiot.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
__________________ "Do you know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning? The same thing that happens to everything else." - Halle Berry as Storm, from the first X-Men film
The Month of May is Ororo Munroe aka Storm Month!
Sorry but this all seem like wild guesses. If you can't tell how much stronger each form is compared to the last one, then you really got nothing to base that on.
An example would be Goku's USSJ forms, in which his strength increased, yet his speed decreased.
Also, I should remind you that Kaio-ken is a special technique. That doesn't mean ki always operates the way Kaio-ken does.
No actually, some of the things you said is based on mere assumptions (like the numbers). Also, using a character's reputation doesn't mean anything in a situation like this.
Wait...he isn't beating ANYBODY in Z the series? Okay, it's obvious YOU'RE the one that's insane. Dude, he can take out some of those characters in DBZ (not at the same time). He at best would be Namek saga at least.
You pretty much just solved your own problem. You just said "Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the [b]Z verse", which is exactly why it's pointless when talking about a non-DBZ character.
Fist of all, how know that was "less than half"? Because he was in his first form? That could have taken out a huge chunk of his power. Besides, even in his last form, he still botched his attempt to destroy a planet.
You call that crying compared you whining about something over a FICTIONAL character? Give me break!
After throwing so many insults like that, it's clear that YOU'RE the fanboy troll here.
As for your King Piccolo thing, I've addressed this before. Kenshiro has Musou Tensei. It's not gonna hit him and in a likely case, King Piccolo would try to fight Kenshiro up close, which would prove to be his downfall if he does. This mainly due to the fact that Kenshiro is a much better fighting style (much better than pretty much anybody in the DB series).
Can't beat Goku after the King Piccolo saga? Okay, from the very next time we see Goku, tell me what you think his advantages are? You just said Kenshiro stands no chance but didn't provide any type of proof your own claim so let's see what YOU think first. Then I'll provide why I think so otherwise.
You can't even understand the simple mathematics behind Frieza's power level..
It's not assumption, it's math...
Frieza in form one was at 550,000 max it's a fact.
Frieza in form 2 was over a million; fact.
Frieza form 3 was considerably stronger than form 2 it's a fact.
Frieza form 4 was WAY stronger than his third form... fact.
Form 4 had a varying power level that worked in percentages... fact.
You can't understand all that: fact.
Are you a 2nd grader? Is that the problem here? Because if that's the case you shouldn't be watching a show like FOTNS...
And USSJ is the EXCEPTION to the rule.... an exception that only works when the person using that form doesn't have time to become comfortable with the large body... with time, that isn't the case as proved by Broly.
Anyways.... yeah power levels are a measurement of power.. If you don't use a scouter it doesn't all of the sudden negate a Z characters feats and you're full of shit to insist otherwise.
Prove that Ken can use intangibility and show it working on an offensive level.. Show it working on a character with super speed beyond his own.. Show me ANYTHING as to why you think he can spend time being any more than a red smear on the end of Goku or Frieza's fist.
I've already told you all of Goku's advantages... We've been over them half a dozen times now... Stop trolling you annoying little psychopath of a fanboy..
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Last edited by jinzin on Oct 2nd, 2010 at 04:37 AM
The only way an "argument" works is if both sides take into consideration what the other is saying so that they can take, and rebuttle the points at hand accordingly.
He's not doing that.
Everything that is being argued against him is met with a "nu-uh" argument and we're treated to another list of techniqes or sub-par feats from Kenshiro that have already been discussed, disputed and debunked. And that's when he's not just flat out lying.
Now when it comes to the insults, perhaps he shouldn't be insisting that others have a reading problem when he's clearly the one with a comprehension problem here.
So far, you're the only one who has come close to a legitimate argument supporting Kenshiro, but even with all the featwork you post up, that stuff is well.... sub-par compared to what Z fighters are pulling off and none of it is an answer for a wave of King Piccolo's hand.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Last edited by jinzin on Oct 2nd, 2010 at 04:50 AM
Kiriksze doesn't think that ken can beat a Z fighter, he just posted those feats because I said that ke would lose to kid goku. if kid goku didn't go all out in the beginning, that would be the only goku ken would have a prayer at beating but the thing about it is... I don't think ken can take down the red ribbon army like kid goku did so he isn't beating kid goku either. As for the rest of your post on power levels... I agree with that. As for you comments on frieza, I agree with that as well. Only people in denial wouldn't agree with it.
What jinzin is trying to tell you is that frieza at final form was fighting goku at 1% of his true power and was destroying him. Well final form frieza power level was far greater than his first form. Final form frieza power level during the time he used 1% of his power was in the millions whereas first form frieza was only 550k and even during that pale comparison of power he still destroyed the planet with one finger and did it with ease and again, this frieza power level was far less than the frieza that used only 1% of his true power against goku.
As for frieza not being able to destroy planet namek, go back and read or listen to what he said after escaping the spirit bomb (I used up all of my power escaping that blast) then let's not even include the beat down that he got from super saiyan goku goku before trying to blow the planet up.
Frieza was depleted and admitted that he was depleted of his power.
As for your excuse of trying to debate that the higher your power level are the more stronger, faster, and durable you are... your argument failed. Gohun even thought that with that extra power goku had, he would be able to beat cell... goku explained why that wouldn't work and powerlevel had nothing to do with it. He was the size of hulk and goku stated that it would be hard to maneaver around at that size. People tend to use that as an argument to debunk the power level story that resides with dbz but even then they were trying to tell us that the the higher the power level the more you have a chance at beating a character because gohun a thought that goku could beat cell and piccolo and tien thought that trunks could beat cell also until the weakness of that amp was revealed.
Yeah, let's ignore the fact that I considered the possibility that Freiza's insides may be different.
Sorry, basically saying "Goku's better" is not debunking anything.
There is no comprehension problem with me. Remember, you were the one claim that I put Kenshiro as the same strength, speed, and durability as SSJ Goku and ignored how I said that Freiza would beat Kenshiro if he was serious.
You manage to say all of that and yet NONE of that proves that his power was at 100 million so you're just full of bull crap!
Now for the USSJ thing (to both you and carver), there is no excuse for that. If power level was a measurement of strength, speed, and durability as you claimed, that would have also applied to that form as well. The fact all of those traits didn't increase proves that it doesn't work the way you say it. I should also remind you that Goku died from a planet explosion, despite the fact he was much stronger than Freiza at that time (who did survive such a thing).
Look at Kenshiro's fight with Raoh. He used Musou Tensei, which allows him to go intangible and he also managed to attack while using it.
If you're throwing so many insults like that, then you got no room to be calling people a troll or a fanboy! Seriously, get the heck out of here!
Goku never died from just a planet explosion. You might want to look at that blast again since it was so much more. That blast destroyed everything... including the planet. Look at that blast again. As for frieza durability vs goku durability... the fight alone between the two proved that goku body was more durable. Frieza durability didn't keep him in the fight whereas goku durability ha him at his peak throughout the fight.
As for your comment on power levels... you are doing it again, ignoring gokus own words. The size alone made it hard for goku to move around and use that speed. This isn't hard to comprehend. Like I told you before... if you are more powerful than one person then you are also more durable, stronger, and faster than that person. Answer this... who is faster, piccolo from regular dragonball or piccolov during the frieza saga? When you answer that tell me why you are saying what you are saying.
As I said, you don't understand simple math.... Are you a second grader?
Uh yeah there is... The "excuse" for that is VERY SIMPLE:
It's an exception... not a rule. Period.
Again if the characters had time to develop a comfort level with their bulked up bodies speed wouldn't be an issue.. Broly proves this.
You didn't find an example of higher power levels NOT being evidence of faster, stronger, better fighters... you found an example of higher powers levels COMPOUNDED by a significant increase of mass on characters who aren't changelings having a physical effect on their speed.... AND ONLY their speed, AND ONLY if they don't have time to get comfortable with the mass...
So once again, it's not proving your point, it's only serving to show us that like with math, you don't have any concept on what an exception is, or how it doesn't apply to a rule.
You know what you can't find? An example of what you're talking about where there isn't some circumstantial bullshit to go with it... You think otherwise? Prove it. Show me a character with a higher power level being slower, weaker, etc etc when they don't have a significant strain on their bodies changing mass like in USSJ.... Show me. Cause so far all you have is circumstantial evidence that's easily dismissed.
It DOES apply to that form... It's just a matter of whether or not the person using it is used to the added mass. Proved by Broly.
The only person who used it in the show was Trunks, and he was 1 uping cell for the majority of their fight until Cell figured out the drawback, so his strength durability and power output were all still superior....
Anyway, what I wrote above again because I already covered this.
The ONLY thing it didn't increase was his speed because he wasn't used to the heavy mass of the body or the friction it caused.... everything else increased... What part of that don't you understand?
Goku didn't die..... Again, you're lying AND an idiot.
You want to unermine my reading I'll address you as I like, ESPECIALLY when you're acting like a rabid fanboy.... Now, it's not my job to find your proof for you so start posting some links.... fanboy.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
I truly hope not... I truly hope we're not even about to begin pretending that anything in the Cell saga is something Ken would have to worry about.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Why doesn't it matter? Can you show me a character with a weaker power level defeating someone with a higher power level outside of trickery. I'm referring to them "physically" taking this person down not freezing time or switching bodies. If you can't show this then the power levels that you showed above proves a lot.
It really doesn't matter since the blast was much more than planetary and then its pretty much obvious that cell power could kill goku and that is exactly what it was that killed him even if the planet did explode. People need to stop basing things off of collateral damage. It wasn't the planet explosion that killed goku... it was cell.
Nah, shouldn't have to. I don't know who or what Kenshiro is, but he doesn't get past Super Sayian Goku based on what I've heard. I've also yet to hear a speed feat that matches the mach 14 thing from Dragon Ball, so he might not even top that Goku, much less any version in DBZ.
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"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Oct 2nd, 2010 01:38 AM
Okay, it's obvious YOU'RE the one that's insane. Dude, he can take out some of those characters in DBZ (not at the same time). He at best would be Namek saga at least.
You just said "Power levels are just a measurement of each characters powers in the [b]Z verse", which is exactly why it's pointless when talking about a non-DBZ character.
hysterical.
