Darth piggott
i hope you served before replying to him that way.
it's a military personal standing order to refuse any and all unlawful orders.
most people think that includes some random BS on a political bases it is not.
i have refused orders and have quoted regulations that are being violated more often than not. they are minor infractions from personal servitude or clear violation of state and federal laws.
more often than not you require the order to be on you to cover your @$$ by being as professional as possible have witnesses and than they may listen or turn around and find some one else to do it.
while you get f#$#ed over from insubordination for whatever minor infractions they can find on you. although, it's against the rules to punish or harass a person for following orders and correcting a person regardless of rank.
you have a warped and skewed opinion of what you think the military is and it is very honorable to disobey order whether it is based on legal violations or even personal principles.
which is part of the Marine Etho, it might get you kicked out or "corrected" but so long as you right and stand by what you believe it is your personal responsibility to stand up for them.
in the military many ppl forget the ethos and oaths they swore to follow due to fear, being children or not knowing and willfully being ignorant.
we all have the internet you can find soldiers who have stood up and willingly disobeyed for various reason least importantly of those reason is political
Well soldiers have families, and would rather keep their jobs because they may be the only provider in their family. I would rather keep my job then start a revolution. And we don't get credit for the good we do, like providing jobs for locals in the countries we have bases in, even Iraq and Afghanistan, and providing food and medical supplies for Haitains in 24 hours, to providing food and medical supplies in war torn countries such as Sudan, and other African countires in the horn of Africa. All you like to focus attention on is the war in Iraq. America isn't bad enough to start a revolution, even soldiers in WW2 wouldn't have thought that. The war in vietnam, you think soldiers wanted a war in vietnam. If it wasn't for civilians and the media we probably would have stayed in Vietnam longer.
And yes I'm in the military right now, and let me clarify what I mean by not folling orders. I'm a crew chief so if someone told be to do something to an aircraft that I don't agree with then I'm going to say something. Now if your commander tells you to prep a jet up for war, then that's what you do, you don't argue because you disagree with the war. The same goes for if he or she tells you to guard a door, then that's what you do. Now every squadron or unit is different, but that's how mine is. Soldiers are still heroes!
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Last edited by Darth Piggott on Feb 28th, 2011 at 03:57 PM
Standing up for what you believe in is the very definition of being a hero, and you just proved my point for me.
Soldiers blindly follow orders they know in their gut are wrong and unjust, that they typically don't question until they suffer a tragedy, and heroics can only be determined on an individual by individual basis. Occasionally someone will stand up for what they know is right and take whatever punishment the military courts dish out... these are the true heroes.
They are by no means heroes just because they take on the role of soldier.
the is the most selfish self serving reason and was a thought that was not readily shared by our forefathers. its why our nation has become so derelict that we consistently ignore and even violate our civil liberties sacrificing it for the illusion of security.
a person should protect and provide for their families but they shouldnt become tyrants and violate laws to do so.
aside from that most soldiers are teens and early 20's many dont have family of their own on average.
and the fact that they do should be the main reason to disobey and stand up for tyrant and unlawful governments
MAny soldiers have families, because they are in their 20's and don't think to use condoms. I'm sure our fore fathers were not thinking about military civil liberties when building this nation. The military has changed a lot, like you're not legally supposed to hit someone else in the military, but that was not the case in the 80's and before then. IF you had a problem with someone you fought it out. Now I'm sure in 1775 that's what colonial soldiers did as well. How is fighting a war you don't believe in make someone a tyrant or violate laws? Anyone that takes on the role of a soldier is a hero unless proven otherwise. I don't agree with the war in the middle east but I'm still going to keep flying planes over there, because everytime I send a plane in the air, someone appreciates it somewhere, maybe not you guys but someone
Being a hero involves sacrifice for what you know is right.
They are war torn because of the western world's empire building. If we stayed home and worked on our own country they wouldn't need our "help."
Tell that to the Black American veterans and any Native Americans.
Remember when Muhammad Ali refused to take part in the vietnam draft because he knew it was unjust and crazy despite what the decision would mean to his life and career? That was heroics in action.
our fore fathers fought against the english to free themselves and to change the overall situation for their family and emerging country at great personal risk to not just themselves but to their family and friends.
the problem is many ppl today think having two cars, owning a home that they cant afford and electricity is reason enough to blindly comply.
now our forefathers main reason going to war was personal freedom and self rule. you might want to look into that especially soon after when they won and started working on their new government foundation.
plus the fact that they wrote the declaration of independence.
it's unlawful when we declare a war on a country and fail to adhere to international laws and rules that we agreed upon or when it violates our own federal/local government.. from skipping certain branches of legislation which would otherwise require approval
Thank you King Castle for serving your country, um also a reason I'm getting out the air force, I think soldiers are heros, but I don't like the politics.
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Last edited by Darth Piggott on Feb 28th, 2011 at 04:27 PM
Being unwilling to give up your security/comfort-zone to fight for what is right is the exact opposite of heroics.
They are just doing their job and performing as they were ordered. That's all.
You forget this was the '60s and he was by no means seen the way he is seen today. People hated him in those days, especially the folk in his parents' generation. And he had lost his fortune fighting the court case.
Wow. I never knew Hooters staff took their job so seriously.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
i just feel sorry for them as they are conned in to this shit while the politicians sit on there backsides. i feel sorry for there familys when thy find out there son as died in the war and most of all i feel sorry for the people they kill.
There's a difference between soldier and soldier. A soldier can be a hero, and a soldier can be a villain. You can't point at a few bad soldiers, and say that soldiers are bad. Same as you can't point on a few good soldiers, and say soldiers are good.
Then there's a matter of what orders you follow through with, and how much of what you do is you and what your moral and physical position to various activities is.
You hear sorrowful stories about how much wrong soldiers do in those regions, but you also hear stories about how soldiers help the less fortunate in the same regions.
Are soldiers 'heroes'? No. Individuals can be, though.
Yeah, well, Christianity and Islam says "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and we've all seen how well that works.
So let them. You should NEVER go against what you believe, no matter what oath you've sworn. Jail, decapitation, crapitation, it doesn't matter. They don't take away your freedom. You give it to them, and let them crap on it.
To say that you're without power in the army is a load of crap. You always have the power to say no, no matter how low in the chain of command you are.
Your mentality is to me what seperate good soldiers from bad soldiers. Heroes, and villains.
The hero is the one that stand firm to what he believe, and dare to not execute that one morally challenged order.
The villain is the soldier whose behavior is excused by the oath he has sworn, and that believe he's not to be blamed for the trigger he pull.
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Last edited by Super Marie 64 on Mar 1st, 2011 at 09:21 AM
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