How does the son of Judomaster, the man who has owned Bane and Katana stack up against other DC Martial Artists? Pure hand to hand, what odds does Tommy get.
Batman (Dick)
Batman (Bruce)
Shiva
Richard Dragon
Bronze Tiger
Cass
Connor Hawke
Black Canary
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I think Kirk as being more less Deathstroke, with less appearances.
I'm not sure about Tommy. He really put the boots to Bane, and he doesn't have any embarrassing loses that I can think of (but I haven't read Checkmate in a while, so maybe he does but I've forgotten). I don't think Shiva or Dragon could have dispatched Bane as easily as Tommy did, that's why I wanted to see other peoples opinions. I wouldn't include him in a list due to lack of feats, but he might be running for top 5.
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I'd say he's probably around Canary's level personally. He has a good chance against Dick or Dinah or Conner, but he's below Cass, Bruce, Dragon, and Tiger.
Dinah accounted for more than one in the free-for-all (the one she fought solo seemed to be the strongest of the lot). She's also fought a lot of people other than the Brothers.
The brothers are featless nobodies created for the solo purpose of artificially elevating Black Canary's MA cred. Dinah stalemating the best brother is her best feat, and it's not as good as beating Bane let alone own Bane.
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The brothers we saw in combat with: Richard Dragon, Conner Hawke, Wildcat...
Dinah also is highly respected by Shiva, beat Cheshire pretty easily (and she is not a poor martial artist), we've seen spar with Diana, train with Cassandra and Nightwing, took Deathstroke's eye...
The Armless and Legless masters were also respected by Shiva too.
Beating Chesire is about as impressive as Jason Todd owning Oynx. Chesiere is like a less skilled Madame Viper, she is more of a poisoner than a MA. Training matches don't matter.
Storm has beat Wolverine in a training match. Robin has beat Shiva in a training match. That's largely the point of a training match.
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Yes, and they were great masters of students who individually gave Batman a tough struggle, as well as training Catwoman. That they were able to put up some fight against Shiva despite lacking limbs speaks highly of their skills too.
Dinah was not only on Shiva's list of top 25 on Earth, but moved up on it a few slots during the story, before she got training from Shiva which likely helped more.
Her thing is using martial arts and poison in conjunction.
Not if the people are both taking it seriously.
I'm unfamiliar with the first, and I'm pretty sure the second didn't happen unless Shiva gave herself some sort of major handicap.
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There's clearly plenty of feats despite attempts to write them off.
Chesiere has been owned by Roy. It's been a long time since she beat Slade and was giving the Titan's trouble, and if we are being perfectly honest the Titans kind of sucked back then. They could hardly beat anyone. Canary might have "lots of feats" but none of them support the level of skill she has been attributed with. Outside of stalemating one of the Twelve brother's of silk everything she has done is tantamount to Storm beating Yukio.
Tim did beat Shiva in a sparing match. Don't remember when... sometime in the early 90s. He laid her out with his bow staff, and said she underestimated him and the next time she would kick his ass.
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Jan 25th, 2011 02:06 AM
