Cept unlike a bullet, a person can decide to strike another area :V The force to launch him doesn't disappear.
I helped Scream get the spin distance, his time seemed legit. Wont be. If he can attack at 100m/s he can throw up a shield at that speed too. Superhuman speed aiming and shooting an arrow is faster then a peak human aiming and shooting.
Just to speed up the thread, Link used the Pegasus which iirc makes him twice as fast. There, faster. Now he can bullet time his way to a slash.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
So? Depending on how good the opposition is, you can then defend another area based on their position, I dont suppose you ever took up fencing?, a good fencer does not see their opponents attacks as slow motion, they composate. Seems the pressure at the other end did though, so pretty weak.
So its all about a spin? not simply every strike. Why?, a shield is arguably more cumbersome and whats he holding? his arrows and bombs to launch an attack or is he hiding behind a shield that probably wont protect him? Show me the super human speed aim? all Duke has to do is pull a trigger in the general direction, fireing a bow takes a lot more effort to get right.
That sounds a bit general, I assume your talking about boots? so hes going to go from typical human speed running/walking to what, marathon runner speed, theres no bullet timing there. Your trying to relate the ambigious "defence" of a blow to running speed and movement.
Cept human combat can only happen if a persons speed can be countered by the others reactions and speed. Took it, aced it, beat the ****ing class. Take if you've never been in a fight :V cos if your reactions are below the opponents speed you wont be dodging or blocking their hits. Nope, not how it works.
Before you try, saying Link is fast for one attack but slower for others is a weak argument. Yeah.. couldn't understand that sentence. Super speed+super reactions=fast aiming. It takes about 0.3s to think, aim and shoot based on human RT and speed. Seeing as Link has 15x peak human reactions and 10x speed, he could aim and fire at least 10x faster. Now it'd only take a sec for a pro archer to. So the arrow could be heading for Duke before he fires~
...fekkin missed word. Contradiction; "Links peak human" "typical human speed" how can he increase from peak human to marathon speed? ;3 With the boots he'll be twice Duke's speed. Cant shoot something moving twice your speed which can react to your shots.
And thats without what the others here said.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
And technique. Its all about perception and following someones movements, you can do that easily with sparring, weapons etc, you dont have to watch their blow in slow mo to defend, if you do then your not too good unfortunatly , "the hand is quicker than the eye" is a term in martial arts and so the mind has to compensate.
Not really, since a lot of Links abilities have some magical fuel and some of his attacks do seem visually slower or faster than others and iirc the one you mathed has magical effect to it like a lot of Links special moves, remember what I just tought you about technique for instance? No not really, whats super speed got to do with it? anyone can quickly draw a bow but you have to take aim and effort with a bow, not with a gun like Dukes. Wheres this 0.3s coming from? source? Why should it be? Links drawring an arrow of choice, aiming and then shooting with hopefuly accuracy vs Duke whos just "pulling trigger".
Erm yes you can because hes not twice Dukes bullet speed, being a bit quicker than Duke himself means nothing, humans cant dodge bullet fire from regular guns let alone triple barrel machineguns or plasma guns that can light up huge areas and while hes fleeing in terror hes not fireing unless you can prove he can do all this at once, he is a man afterall and men cant multi task
Indeed, I have been almost ignoring what Darkstorm said about the plasma cannon lighting up whole areas, so theres no "dodging" BS worth mentioning anyway.
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Last edited by Burning thought on Aug 24th, 2011 at 09:35 PM
Why do you keep bringing up slow-mo? Your reations have to match your opponents speed your you'll get hit. "the hand is quicker than the eye" is a term for the advancer, not the defender.
Nope, requires him to spin around. That's all. You taught me about how magical moves can be faster... what, you were taught by Yoda? O-o. Hence where reaction comes into play. 0.3 = 0.1 reaction time + >0.1 aim movement + <0.1 trigger pull. Actually the aim movement would be more 0.2, so 0.4. Also here. Note that not only are they specialized for this, these are shot from the hip, not actually aiming like Duke would. Yes all that, but will it take 4 seconds to do? If you've ever been with cocky teens while doing archery you'll know that it takes a second for these amateurs to do a quick shot. Sure they barely hit the target.. but they're amateurs unlike Link. With normal human speed these kids can set up, aim and fire in a second. Imagine a pro like Link who can move 10x faster then a person.
Never said out running a bullet dodging. A 2xpeak guy who can bullet time at 2m can advance on the shooter. Prove a character can dodge and shoot?... anyone can move and react, let alone a superhuman.
If you want I can just say Link used Nayru's love to take anything that hits then PBoots over to Duke, freeze him and smash the ice to pieces with a blade beam. NL > his weaps.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
If you know martial art basics you know it works for both, any offensive action has to be matched by a defense therefore you still have to take into account something you may not be able to see. Theres also such a thing as stand, if using a sword for sparring, you can take horizontal/vertical stances for better blocking of certain attacks, you dont get into a stance in the middle of an opponents attack. Links got an even easier time of it here, all he has to do is put up his shield, its big enough to cover most of him and with a shield, slight movements can deflect blows and on top of that, Dlink uses some of Links similiar skills so he knows what hes facing, nothing much to do with reaction at all.
Show me, I recall some magical force being relevent. Your source is talking about guns ,not bows and arrows and does not include initial reaction time, e.g. their actions are based on an event, they know the time and when their going to fire, however if your trying to say Duke will take this much time hes not pulling handguns or such from a holster and I assume both charactersin this thread begin with their weapons drawn. Link still has to be able to aim and fire, unless you can prove professionals can do this in less than a second while under machine gun fire. Then add the time it takes for reaction, human reactions on events are not that quick. He can do a sword spin that much faster, based on amibgious assumptions of how he fought Dlink, who he has an advantage against being a similiar opponent to himself, he does not have that agianst Duke.
Well its the same thing, you cant "dodge" a bullet, or three barrels spitting out hundreds of bullets just because you can run several times the speed of a man. move and react? I said dodge and shoot, sprint/flee away from three machineguns opening up WHILE fireing an accurate shot? never seen it from link at all....
Naryus love has what feats? whats it canonically taken? NL has never faced machineguns and energy cannons so I dont know how you can claim NL>them unless its done something damn impressive. Also, looking it up, Link cant do much while its active, he cant use powers or magic.
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Last edited by Burning thought on Aug 25th, 2011 at 02:40 PM
Considering the shockwave alone filed a stadium upto the rafters, and considering the initial blastwave is much much bigger than that, I think my claim is justified.
Well I keep imagining Duke with the triple barreled machinegun because its a gun I used a lot when I played Duke Nukem forever, remembering the plasma cannon is hard because Its not in the new game is it? (did not finish it).
No. The Plasma Cannon was a N64 exclusive weapon for Duke Nukem 64, along with the 6 shot grenade launcher, twin SMGs and the heavy missile launcher. (Along with alternate ammo types for the Shotgun, Pistol and Missile Launcher.... DumDum Pistol Bullets and explosive shotgun shells owned so hard in multiplayer.)
Yeah that line is for the persons move being faster then the others eyes. In this case Link's eyes are able to keep up with DLink's moves.
Its the basic spin attack, youtube's being laem for larger vids so I'm not gonna look through several long vids like this >:. Its talking about guns because I was talking about Duke, not Link Some guy shooting, lucky its a short vid.. Anyway his best shot takes 3.5s. That's 0.2 to think, 1 to bring the arrow to the bow, 2 to notch the arrow, 0.3 to aim and fire. Some site say a pro can bring the arrow to the bow and notch it in 0.5s each. With obvious better reactions and aim, pro would be 0.1 to think, 0.5 for arrow to bow, 0.5 to notch, 0.2 to aim and shoot. With human level speed and RT Duke fires in 0.4s and Link in 1.3. As a superhuman with 10x speed and 15x reactions, Link takes 0.00666 to think, 0.05 for arrow to bow, 0.05 to notch, 0.0133 to aim and fire: Basically 0.12 seconds. And if Duke is 10m away and with a 100m/s arrow it would take a total of 0.22s for Duke to be hit by an arrow. That means Duke will get hit half way through his shot, aka while starting to aim.
Again, reacting to a 150m/s slash at 1m means you can react to a 400m/s bullet shot from 2.6m away. He can equally react at that distance. Moving twice as fast as Duke means he can outpace his movements/targeting. Being faster then the shooters aim and being able to react to the bullets at a certain distance means Link can dodge his fire.
Nayru's Love can take force up to 90% of Ganon's strikes based on damage, takes GJ force to get past its defenses. IIRC machine gun bullets are only 5kJ. NL makes it so you can't use items or spells that require magic. PBoots, an arrow or a stab/blade beam do not use up his magic.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
But not his weapons of attack, which do not include predictable sword or fist play but erratic weapons fire or large AoE explosives.
I see, i dont know why you brought up holster pistol draw speeds for Nukem who uses large machineguns. Well your vid here shows draw speeds but not reaction times, hes just fireing, not reacitng to anything. Also your using how fast Link can block someone with his shield as a basis for all his moves, thats wrong, he may not be as quick for all activities hes put in and further, swinging a sword is far less active than the concentration and such for an accurate bow shot. Also 0.4 is if he had to pull a gun and draw it. Only, your facts are unrelated to Dukes weapons or his method and your basis on Link is purely how he reacts to a sword blow or pre empts a sword blow.
Concerning your source for shooting, the guy does less than 10 shots a minute, assuming hes not really aiming at anything, reactions are not taken into account and hes not under machinegun fire thats not too great, Icant see Link with the said problems hes up against even achiveing a hit tbh. Maybe if hes standing firm he can but not while running and fireing.
Ive yet to see him actually reacting to the slash, you can hold your shield up (and so can Link) to deflect a slash like that also this is not one bullet, its 3 barrels spraying bullets, this is not "bullet time link" and his shields not proven to block bullets iirc, as Darkstorm pointed out, Duke has access to a very large area affect weapon so all this "dodge bullet" BS is worthless anyway.
He can move faster than duke can run, but Duke has to do far less to shoot link than Link does to avoid being shot assuming he could. Links sprinting for his little life, trying to apprently fire shots from a bow accuratly while Duke just has to slowly pivot his body in Links general direction.
So theres no canon use of it then? your just using the gameplay mechanics of what it does to Ganons damage, as opposed to how many hearts Link loses when hes struck while using it. Also I would not be surprised if deploying NL takes time even if its a second.
Edit- its more like 3+ seconds, so NY love is useless unless Link wants to die fast.
also, I looked up some DLink vids, apprently you dont necesserily have to react to anything. People are either just hitting him repeatadly with a hammer or just holding up the shield.
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Last edited by Burning thought on Aug 25th, 2011 at 04:49 PM
I'm not going to waste my time arguing that you need reactions to match your attackers strikes to evade, block or counter them.
To see how fast it takes him to think(0.1), aim(0.2) and then fire(0.1): 0.4s, slower then a quick-draw. The reaction time of a avg human is 0.2, 0.1 for peak. That's how long it takes a person to think of doing an action to actually doing the action. If Link has arm movements 10x faster then a human he can do the same movements 10x faster with his 15x reactions covering concentration and accuracy. You're underestimating how fast it can happen. That normal guy can do it in 3.5s, a pro can do it in 1.3s. 2.6x faster while still in the human limits. Limits Link bypasses. 0.4 is to think, aim and pull the trigger. Its slower then a superhuman with a bow.
Unless DLink is retarded, a preemptive block wont work. Reactions have to equal attack speed to evade, block and counter. These reactions let him dodge, his speed lets out outmaneuver Duke. That's what you need to bullet time. Yeah: Aim and shoot. Two things that are very difficult to do against a creature with 20m/s movements and 0.006 reactions. Who said Link will be running away? 20m/s agains Duke's 0.1RT means that Link can lunge a meter before he can react, and this meter means Duke's arm movement wont get a lock.
Excluding flashy movements it only takes a split second between the light entering his body to forming the shield. The only game'mech is the exact figure. Ganon being the only entity to damage Link with NL is a fact meaning it takes his amount of force to harm him. A little doubtful that Duke has weapons nearing GJ levels of force.
@Cyner: Well that's be a no-limits fallacy. Though being able to stop Ganon still makes it an extremely powerful defense.
Note: The range of spell's 'screen length' is 10x Link's height. Fairly large area.
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"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Jolly good, maybe ill see more counters worth reading in that case. Can you show me the source for your reaction times? iirc, when we were doing it before, a wiki article pointed out it took 0.3 for visual reaction and slightly less for sound before making an action. Hang on, wheres the pro numbers again? I have yet to see a pro, and we dont know this guys background, he could be a pro for all we know? Your pulling 0.4 from thin air, a lot of these numbers seem to be from nowhere, how fast it takes for someone to draw a gun and fire is slower than just pulling a trigger. Your deductions are based on ambigious assumptions on how Link fought Dlink and then overhyping the numbers used in one move to everything Link does. I can move my hands fairly quick, does not mean I can move my feet, legs etc at the same speed, its the same with people who have reflexes enough to do martial arts, does not mean they will beat marathon runners in a race, or fire accurate bow shots alongside the masters of archery.
He may well be, not sure what he is tbh, just some sort of spirit by the looks of it, point being he only knows Links attacks, so a preemtive block is fine and no, preemtive can cover all of those things. He does not have that movement speed, he can do an attack in a meter or so at high speed, thats not a case for him being able to run at those speeds.
Hes got to get activate the light first, it takes seconds for him to activate it all, therefore useless. Fact or no, your the one assuming it works on a % basis, we know Ganons is superior, we dont know how high power can get before the shield is useless and your only gauge is how much health Link loses by comparison. Its doubtful duke will take 3 seconds to blast link into bits unless he enjoys the lightshow.
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Last edited by Burning thought on Aug 25th, 2011 at 06:45 PM
Do me a favour, stop being annoying, kay? Its 0.2to 0.1. Judging from his page and status, he isnt a pro. Thin air if you didn't read the post. Confirmed peak reactions is 0.1, confirmed arm movement speed is 0.2[takes that long to throw a punch] and 0.1 is to pull a trigger. How does your 'hands and feet' point relate in any way to 'hands and hands'? Arm movement is arm movement. His dexterity will match his speed and reactions.
He thinks and acts like Link. Is Link retarded? No. 2xpeak human running is 20m/s movement speed. PBoots.
Besides the flashy movements its still instantaneous. Forming the orb, 0.2s. Taking it in to form the shield, 0.1. Its only if you count the flashy things will it be longer. The gameplay is the only way to say by how much, if not it can still take Ganon's strength so it doesn't really matter. So the shields up and he's impervious to Duke.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Last edited by BloodRain on Aug 25th, 2011 at 07:16 PM
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Aug 24th, 2011 07:35 PM
, "the hand is quicker than the eye" is a term in martial arts and so the mind has to compensate. 
dodging. A 2xpeak guy who can bullet time at 2m can advance on the shooter. Prove a character can dodge and shoot?... anyone can move and react, let alone a superhuman.
