You didn't know you can get a murder 1 charge for killing a "child"/minor?
To put it more directly instead of laughing at your ignorance (like you thought you were doing to mine, lol, like...wtf man?), the second degree murder charge can be escalated to murder 1 if it causes the death of a minor.
In fact, as the Florida law reads on murder 2, it would be difficult to pin a murder 2 charge on Zimmerman if it could be shown he approached the situation, ready to fire his gun. In order to get the second degree charge, you have to prove that he had no intention to kill anyone (but still, "without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual" makes it difficult to pin a murder 2 charge on him) ...which is difficult to do if he approaches it with a clear intent to use his gun. IIRC, people have gotten murder 1 for lesser approaches.
The bolded part is incorrect. It has to be "reasonable " which means, in lawyer speak, that a person has to have a reasonable justification. If this (whether or not a reasonable person could justify the actions) cannot be agreed upon or is too gray, it will sometimes go to a jury. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the judge waived the motion to acquit twice because of this (too gray and needed to be decided by a jury). In Zimmerman's case, it was difficult to distinguish whether or not his response to Martin, using deadly force, was "reasonable". If what you said was true, there would not have been a trial.
But it does specifically use the word "reasonable" which substantially changes the direction you should be interpreting the law.
By your logic, a person with some really really suspicious approaches to other people (but not insane0 is justified in killing anyone they see because that person suspects them of wanting to cause serious harm. Obviously, such a person is probably legally insane but just pretend they are not.
you should check the precedence for what is considered "reasonable" under Florida law. The judge never commented on why she rejected the motion for acquittal.
fair enough... all things being equal, I still think Martin is easily as likely to get off as Zimmerman was.
to be fair though, I think the motion for acquittal rested much more on Zimmerman's intent, which is what the lawyers argued about primarily. Both murder 1 & 2 require specific malicious intent against the victim (and in fact are almost never found in cases where the victim and killer don't know one another to build such a negative rapport), the defense had far more cases that showed what I would describe as incredible maliciousness (pile-driving a man into concrete for being bumped into in a mosh pit, causing death) that were not considered intent, thus, they argued even if Zimmerman was a racist profiling a teen, there was no evidence he specifically wanted to murder him, thus, no intent for the murder charge. [actually, this was why the prosecution was fixated on the "****ing punks" line, trying to fit Zimmerman saying that with malicious intent against Martin, which I would agree is a massive stretch with nothing corroborating it]
The obvious question is, why didn't they acquit for self-defense then, if there were no real arguments about whether Zimmerman acted in self-defense or not. Basically, if the prosecution's story were correct, the murder began when Zimmerman pursued Martin, calling him a ****ing punk and *******, with the intent to put him down, whereas the self-defense plea only comes into play after the altercation begins. In the prosecution's position, the murder is already taking place and began while Zimmerman was still on the phone (essentially), in the defense's, Zimmerman is only starting to defend himself after the altercation, and everything that came before it was entirely legal, reasonable, and not evidence of malicious intent.
Viewed like that, I can see why the judge didn't acquit, because there was some interpretation of the event that would preclude the self-defense plea (ie: if Zimmerman is already committing a murder, its not self-defense when he completes the act), but also agree with the jury that the prosecution did not come close to meeting the standard necessary to prove that crime. But it also explains why there was a major focus on intent rather than who was justified in defending themselves when. Basically, I don't think the prosecution would argue that Zimmerman wasn't defending himself, but they would suggest he was defending himself from the victim of the murder he had already determined to commit.
(I think murder 1 works much differently here than in Florida... To get it here, you need like, to plan out an actual murder... no, actually in reading your link it seems to work exactly as I thought it did... what part specifically did you want me to look at? like, here is the blurb on murder 2:
mentions the need for intent or a deranged mind, nothing about minors... The reason this would be a murder 2 and not a murder 1 is that the prosecution was arguing that Zimmerman had malicious intent, but not the premeditation of killing Martin, when he approached; even if he had his gun out it would be hard to prove premeditation in that context... like, very hard. Short of a confession to the tune of "I knew I was going to kill that individual when I got out of the car", probably impossible)
ignorant and racist. most Mexican people are mostly indigenous. the Spanish blood has been very diluted through time since they left. not even close to half white and not really even calculable.
__________________ QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.
Peruvians are different, as are Argentinians etc. however, most of the Hispanic culture has become indigenous, barring Argentinians for the most part
i.e. you're still ignorant and racist. tho i'm sure you are going to disagree with me on this "based off what you learned in school" compared to what I grew up with as one of the culture. aren't you symmetric chaos?
__________________ QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.
While I did like Obama acknowledging the statistics regarding African Americans (he acknowledged both sides including the violent young black teens side), it was difficult to watch him speak so brokenly. It got irritating after a while and I made it only 10 minutes in. Just spit it out, stop saying um, and pausing so much?
Too much time was spent on this.
Also, I lock my doors when homeless white guys walk near my car when my children are with me. When they aren't, I offer rides. I'm racist against white people, I guess.
People are missing the point. He's not advocating racism. He's simply offering context to people who can't(or are unwilling) to see why black people are so upset about this.
The point Obama brought up about "If Martin was armed....." was brought out by Tavis Smiley in another brutal smackdown on O'Reilly's terrible excuse for a show earlier this week.
Oh stop crying. Oh no, he called someone Mexican when they're Spanish, or Spanish when they're Peruvian! To the depths with him! Seriously, stop being a little girl.
You are making far too much of this. The only reason a judge needs to do that is because the judge thinks there is a question for the jury to decide. A summary acquittal only happens if, basically, the prosecution brought no evidence. If there is any actual issue to consider at all- like whether it was self-defence or not- then that is the jury's job.
So such an acquittal can be ruled out immediately, as there was actually quite a lot of direct evidence to consider as to whether it was pre-meditated or not and whether it was self-defence or not.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Jul 20th, 2013 at 02:00 PM
KMC Community Forums
Jul 19th, 2013 11:31 PM
