Determining which actor gave the more credible performance is entirely subjective.
Elaborate?
I think you may have missed the scene where he breaks down sobbing and ranting in front of Padme. Unlike Dent, who calmly, coldly, ruthlessly seeks to kill a child and torment his father. One visibly struggles; the other does not.
Palpatine absolutely pushed Anakin into a corner. It was Palpatine who allowed Anakin to turn him in, but telepathically reminded Anakin that, should Palpatine die, Anakin's one last hope for Padme's safety would be lost. It was Palpatine who forced Anakin's hand by driving Windu to the point that Windu was willing to kill Palpatine without trial, denying Anakin the chance to question Palpatine further. By attacking Mace Windu, Anakin was complicit in an assault against the Jedi order.
That is the very definition of being backed into a corner.
As I explained exhaustively, the dark side of the Force is a corrupting facet of an all powerful energy field. It transcends sheer psychology. As Darth Power reminded you, Luke went to Endor with full knowledge that Palpatine was evil and yet he still very nearly fell to the dark side in a moment of anger. When a Force user indulges in his passions, particularly baser ones, he taps into a corrupting influence that affects him physically, psychologically, and spiritually. Hence why Yoda claimed that once one starts down the dark path, it forever dominates one's destiny. In that respect, it is quite literally like a drug addiction, beyond what Dent experienced.
Yes, yes, because "chaos is fair" and killing innocent children is right. This is where Anakin and Harvey differ. Anakin didn't rationalize his actions as right (hence his visible struggles throughout the films), he rationalized them as necessary to achieve his goal: being strong enough with the dark side to save Padme. Essentialy, Anakin was more receptive to the moral ramifications of killing innocent children than Dent, who showed no struggle and no remorse.
This is inconsistent with what we saw in the film. Harvey Dent at the beginning of the film would never have advocated the death of innocent children. Harvey Dent at the end of the film assumed the task with sadistic purpose. Punishing a man who tried to save Rachel versus obeying the man who killed her.
It's simply an untenable position. There were metaphysical corrupting forces that grappled with Anakin and yet he still struggled with his decisions and put forth some sort of resistance. Dent, on the other hand, decided in the span of 5 minutes to become a mass murderer without reason, without struggle, and without remorse.
Which might be okay if the film established from the beginning that Dent was a fledgling sociopath. But it didn't. It was inconsistent and irretrievably unjustifiable.
You know what...I'm gonna come straight out & say I concede in this debate. I really have no interest comparing Anakin to Dent & for that matter too, I don't know where or why this thread led to Star Wars when it started out comparing The Avengers to The Dark Knight...?
- The army was weak. They damaged the city, but the Avengers themselves never seemed threatened.
- The whale/transport aliens. What kept them afloat? It certainly wasn't their "wings" or any jet propellant. Was it magic? Maybe, but that felt and looked stupid to me. Also, for all the build up around them, they really did nothing but transport other bad guys and bump a building or too, so again, they never really felt like a threat other than they look intimidating.
- Tony Stark calling Pepper Pots and her missing his call. What the f*ck was the point of that? It was probably to set up Iron Man 3 somehow, but within the confines of this movie, it felt incomplete.
- The girl who looks dreamy towards Captain America. Again, probably a set up for a future movie, but felt completely unnecessary in the confines of this movie.
- And not really a complaint, but a better way of bringing Tony back to life at the end would have been Thor using his lightning rather than Hulk screaming him awake. This would was set up perfectly earlier by showing Thor and Iron Man fighting with Thor giving Iron Man's suite an energy boost with the lightning. Perfect foreshadowing to a missed opportunity.
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From a realistic perspective, they weren't. The fact that Steve, Black Widow and Hawkeye were able to destroy every type of the alien forces sans the giant flying dragon things, is pretty muchall the proof you need that the US Military alone would wipe the floor with them.
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Seriously, after watching a 2nd viewing, I got the impression that the aliens were simply gathering in numbers & were waiting for further orders...they really didn't come across as a threat.
When they captured those civilians inside the building, it really looked like they didn't know whether to hold them as prisoners, use them as hostages or kill them?
It's okay, give it a few weeks for the hype to wear off and you'll start seeing sense again.
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they were a threat to humankind.
The entire reason for the team being assembled was to deal with the problem, (or threat), that we as ordinary humans couldn't; the aliens weren't meant to be a threat to the Avengers.
Using the performance of Widow, Hawkeye and Cap as reasoning as to why the military would have been enough is ridiculous because the military is not comprised of thousands of master assassins and super soldiers; the military is a bunch of regular dudes with guns. Also, Widow, Cap and Hawkeye did fine against the individual aliens, but not one of them did (or could have) taken out even one of the Leviathans. Ordinary military personal would have fared much worse than those three did.
There is absolutely no way in hell the military would have been able to contain he invasion like the Avengers did; that leads to another thing people tried to say. "The military had nukes and that would have worked". Sure, that would have worked; they would have killed the aliens along with millions of human beings and caused the entire city to be unlivable. And since the military wouldn't have been able to contain the invasion in the same manner the Avengers did, they would have had to launch more nukes which would have led to Earth being devastated... how exactly is that winning or solving the problem.
Oh yeah... and even after launching all those nukes, there would still be aliens on the other side of the portal continuing to invade and the military, even if they had time between fending off the invasion, would have no idea how to shut the portal down.
So basically, the military would have to resort to mass murder of their own people and complete planetary destruction, all of which wouldn't even stop the attack... but the aliens weren't a threat. lol sure thing.
The Avengers were brought together to deal solely with Loki in the first place, something "ordinary people" couldn't.
Yes SHIELD knew Loki was amassing an army of aliens to invade but they were confident enough that capturing Loki would avert his plans of invasion altogether.
No, the army isn't compromised of "thousands of assassins" or super soldiers but the sheer numbers of any military force armed to the teeth with state of the art weaponery would've easily achieved more than Cap, Hawkeye & Black Widow on their own or together as a team. You're not taking into account that Hawkeye was rendered useless once he ran out of arrows. Same with Black widow. She was clearly getting exhausted & only went up against the aliens with a single gun & x-amount of ammunition. While Cap, even though was a "super soldier" showed signs of tiring & couldn't be everywhere at once.
You're really simplifying when you describe the army as "a bunch of guys with guns." The amount of arsenal alone would've put the Avengers to shame against an alien invasion.
What would've been to the army's advantage also was the size of the wormhole & how the aliens had to line up & wait to get through.
The Hulk took down one Leviathan with a single punch. This would easily equate to a small squadron of armed military with RPG's aiming at the exact same target to bring a Leviathan down.
As far as nuking a city full of civilians, well history shows that was pretty effective in Hiroshima. Not to mention every other post-appocalytpic movie ever made. The use of nukes was never to solve a problem but to push the point across that humanity would rather destroy itself than live enslaved.
So yeah if you watch the movie again, the aliens weren't much of a threat, they were seen gathering in numbers, clearly waiting for orders to be given. There was no mass killings of humans nor not much of property damage either.
Hell, compare this invasion to ID4 , Cloverfield, SkyLine or even World Of The Worlds. People were massacred in these movies as well as whole blocks of cities razed to the ground.
Last edited by Esau Cairn on May 23rd, 2012 at 06:19 AM
LoL, you people. That was essentially the first wave; look at the damage a very small army did in a matter of minutes.
Without the Avengers, the gate wouldn't have closed and the Chirtuari would have kept on coming, Loki planned on enslaving the entire planet, he's not doing it with a dozen transport ships, several score of fliers and a few hundred ground troops.
Only reason the Avengers won, cos doctor man built in a fail-safe, so he essentially saved the planet.
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May 22nd, 2012 06:32 PM
Also, Widow, Cap and Hawkeye did fine against the individual aliens, but not one of them did (or could have) taken out even one of the Leviathans. Ordinary military personal would have fared much worse than those three did. 
