What about any of Croc's showing has made him appear fast. He was only able to keep up with Luffy pre time-skip and pre-gears. He couldn't even manage to stab whitebeard even though he was only like a foot away without being blitzed by Luffy. No example that has been shown on this thread has proved he is fast, just sneaky. Couldn't look at the mangareader ones since we can't view them in America.
Crocodile has casually intercepted cannon-fire, and blocked attacks from Mihawk, who has made a fool of Gear 2 Luffy. That puts him as "really fast" given the speed of the characters involved.
That didn't show much. The image just shows him using his power to stop cannonballs. he wasn't actively dodging them since he didn't have to. gaara has stopped similar things with his sand. That doesn't make him super fast.
With Mihawk, it's hard to tell since we don't know where Croc was before intercepting him, and again, it was a sneak move. Mihawk wasn't even focused on him. hell, the speed feat that das Bones guy pulled off in the panel before that was more impressive.
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Last edited by socool8520 on Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:28 AM
The speed required to "blitz" gaara is great and the fact he could not catch chopper who was not that far away was sad.
Have you gone nuts those marineford fodder were waste being FODDER and all. Your basically saying they are better than all the amazon fodder. Not that it would matter as not a single one of those "strong" fodder are on gaara's level so if they could see him then he gaara most certainly can and stop him.
Gaara can stop his attacks the difference between him and the fodder.
Go watch the fights luffy was able to catch him by surprise many times. And don't you get it if he is not faster than pre gears luffy then he is definitely not faster than mihawk. It is like saying naruto is faster than kabuto for intercepting him which is false.
If water did not do it and other liquids then oil is probably the only thing that does as it is very sticky and thick while crocodile's is not like that nor is it's affect which is useless on his sand. Not that it matter as crocodile's hook does not release it in the same amounts the mizukage did. And like how gaara countered it for the mizukage he can just use overlapping layers.
Actually we don't not know if he was not in sand form as there have been multiple times when a logia attacks yet it looks like they were not in logia form but they were. Not that it matters as he is still slower than pre gears luffy. And gaara having better control does mean he can control him.
Gaara can push back crocodile's sand and it would not fuse with gaara's sand. not that it would get that far as gaara would control him right of the bat.
He did not stop to talk to mihawk he first intercepted him then when he was sure he was at a credible distance and they were even he then started running his mouth off. He did not talk until after he hit akainu so those two points should not have been brought up. With doflamingo it did not matter as they were already facing each other and like MOST people battling they exchanged banter.
Why do you think he went through the trouble to do a sneak attack? Because he would never take whitebeard from the front and he obviously was going his fastest to make to whitebeard to execute his revenge plan. He only started talking after his hook was like less than a second away from hitting him in as he was sure whitebeard cannot dodge. EVEN the artwork depicts him still moving while talking. And him being spotted shows he is not fast and him stopping then talking makes no sense and defeats the purpose of a sneak attack. I have the anime on my side and you only have your own wrong interpretation. He was spotted by fodder face it.
Gaara having MUCH better control means he can control crocodile it is the same as when two magnets clash.
His cannonball feat is him using an attack to block it dos not mean he himself can dodge it. Like gaara blocking sasuke's enton does that mean he himself is faster? And he still is not faster than pre gears.
Your basically saying daz bones has strength on mihawks level since he was able to mostly block mihawk which is obviously not true. And who said mihawk was physically strong? Does he even have any physical feats?
It's just something any One Piece character can do. He'd have to react to the cannonballs in order to stop them, since it isn't like he knows exactly when they'll fire.
Then if it helps we know Crocodile is Das Bones' superior for a reason. However, I'm not sure how it was a sneak move since he had to jump directly in front of Mihawk regardless of how far away he was.
It's not sad, Chopper's still a bullet timer just like all One Piece mid tiers.
See, the thing is, that Haki attack actually proves that the Marineford fodder was better than the Amazon fodder. That's what Haki does. Though yes, if Crocodile isn't trying to be fast, Gaara should be able to see him. Stopping him in another matter entirely.
To be honest I'd wager pre-gears Luffy was faster than Gaara but that is neither here nor there. Is it impossible than Crocodile got faster? Doesn't matter, I suppose, since we still have the on panel of evidence of Crocodile being fast.
Okay, but we do see the hook release enough for a few large boulders, though it isn't as it the is going to be his first resort. Wasn't it just for hitting Gaara with?
You think distance matters against Mihawk, the "I cut icebergs in half from hundreds of meters away" guy? Crocodile was most certainly still well within Mihawk's range. Against Akainu, that was seen to be a sneak attack, and if you didn't notice, he was in sand form during it. No mouth. Those are the exceptions, Crocodile has talked to opponents much more often than not.
Why exactly do you think it was a sneak attack if he talked right before attacking? There's really no reason to ruin the attack like that, as you continuously say. If it was a sneak attack, Crocodile would not have talked, see Mihawk and Akainu, above. What I have is the manga, with the 3 panels of Crocodile just hanging in the air that you still have not managed to explain. The Anime make it even more clear that it isn't a sneak attack, since it actually shows Crocodile leisurely floating up to where Whitebeard is, talking the entire time. That's an extremely odd interpretation of "sneak attack" if that's the one you're going with.
Didn't we go through this once already? There's really no proof of either of their power's working like that. Either way, Crocodile can easily escape Gaara's influence.
He has to be able to see the cannonballs coming and react to them in order to block, so yes. Why would Crocodile dodge cannonballs? As for Enton, that scan states Sasuke was using to defend himself from Gaara's sand, not the other way around. That would mean Enton is the faster one, no?
I don't see why not, if the feats are are there. Let's see, though, Mihawk routine and casually cuts ships and building in half, and swings his sword hard enough to cut apart mountain sized icebergs. Sounds physically strong to me.
I won't address what you said to the other guy as it is his responsibility to reply to a debate he is having with you.
Chopper is still not fast enough to hit gaara.
A little girl in the amazon audience withstood it and she definitely is not better than marine soldiers.
I do not see how you have time to improve your skills while being imprisoned in level 6 of impel down. Gaara has great feats too.
It would not hit gaara and it has obviously a limited amount of poison. And the overlapping layers voids it's abilites.
Your saying it like he automatically knows mihawks range and in that quick of a moment im sure he does not care all long as he makes some space. And the fact is he did not talk.
And no he was not in sand form as he used an attack he did not use himself to ram into akainu if that is what you are saying.
And seriously you are saying I did not explain something I have a million times? Crocodile was not moving that fast and at the same time we were being shown many points of view on what people thought. How many times do I have to say this to you? He started talking when his hook was inches away in the last second of hitting whitebeard and he decided to say it was him since he thought for sure whitebeard would not be able to escape the attack. And you saying the anime is showing it clearer contradicts your statement of the animes interpretation being false. Why bother attacking him if he did not want to kill him? Does he like getting beat up?
Seriously stop it is clear he had every intent to kill he is just slow. Your argument is dismissing stuff I have said numerous times and is making blatant contradictions.
It actually makes alot of sense and im guaranteeing you if it was flipped over and gaara was made of sand and crocodile had the superior control and feats you would be arguing gaara gets controlled. And his method of escaping control is actually very flawed.
Umm yes he used it to defend himself but when he says "your absolute defense is still alive and well" that means that they have done a back and forth and of attacking and defending. And the enton fired at his sand has a tails of fire behind which means it was propelled forward and probably to attack while gaara's sand looks like it is defending. Though propelling the fire as a shield could have been what he was doing their convo implies it was gaara's turn to defend.
he doesn't know when they'll fire, but he knows that they are continually firing at the ship. All has to do is keep his power active the entire time which is well within his capability.
Just because Bones was an underling doesn't mean he was slower than Crocodile, just less powerful overall. I don't dispute that Croc>Bones, just not necessarily faster as Bones' feat was better imo.
It's a sneak attack in the sense that Mihawk's attention was definitely not on Croc. Had mihawk been focused on Croc, or even aware of his prescence, I think the feat would have been better.
^ I would think slow in relation to speedsters in OP. Which I would agree with. He's still fast enough to make it a fight though, but blitzing by OP characters (which everyone always talks about when it's OP vs Naruto) is highly unlikely imo. I think speed is too varied from manga to manga to really use it in a vs setting when talking about different manga match ups. People use calcs, but that is still based of a panel, and we have no way of knowing if that is what the artist truly intended unless he specifically states " wow, Luffy is mach 13," or " Itachi reacted faster than lightning."
What we do know is that neither of the characters are top tier in the speed department in their respective mangas, and should probably be debated on their skill set.
He expected Whitebeard to react from the beginning, he even gets surprised when WB gets stabbed through the chest by surprise stating he is slow. Croc fully knew that in normal circumstanes he couldn't surprise WB because of haki.
Also he is not slow, your bias are horribly showing, at worst he is in the same speed tier than Gaara -Pre-timeskip Luffy is still a bullet timer-. That's not "slow".
Wow cuz it makes so much sense to attack someone from behind and quickly and waste your time even though you know you are 100% gonna fail. Fact is he rushed over and people were still able to see him which is why we were shown different views and he started talking as soon as he thought whitebeard could not dodge it. Gaara intercepted the raikage and sasuke when their attacks were a inch apart trust me he can handle crocodile.
Sorry, I don't really have time for our little back and forth game anymore, so I can't really continue this. However, I think I can still summarize the agreements in this thread. These being:
1. Gaara > Crocodile in sand control.
2. Crocodile is still fast enough to make it a fight.
Since this doesn't seem to be an actual vs. thread (as it is not in the vs forum) I think that should be enough to end the thread. Woo.
Hahaha, i know what you mean. I was having a heated debate last night about Minato supposedly being able to wreck anyone from the OP universe and i thought KMC might shed some light but all i found was this and i was sucked into this argument they were having. I see you still dont like robtard......
It should all come down to whether or not gaara's chackra can control crocodiles sand. Being as how the OP doesnt have chackra. Its all magic in the OP universe which IMO trumps chackra. As far as we know Crocs control of sand is limitless.
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Sep 22nd, 2012 08:50 PM
