Gender: Male Location: kirkby, liverpool, merseyside
And its funny how you ignored what I said the reason was for a super saiyan 4 level fight not duplicating what thanos and drax's fight resulted in even though they theoretically could.
I honestly think that you insulted me first and are now desperately trying to claim the moral victory, when it is plain as day (Even to you) that I have claimed the intellectual victory.
Your jimmies seem thoroughly russled. You should truly try to, indeed, get on my level.
You've bashed StyleTime without any provocation in this thread, despite the fact that Style was nothing but respectful to you, and uncaring of the fact that he is one of those alleged internet males who is really a female IRL that posts as a male to keep themselves from getting harassed.
Shame.
I said he could physically overpower him.
And yes. Thor physically lifted the Midgard Serpent, which was wrapped around Earth, by armwrestling Hercules, he nearly tipped Earth off its axis, etc.
Gender: Male Location: kirkby, liverpool, merseyside
Thats the problem with some characters they can't decide their upper limits, they keep changing them. Like with superman, at one version or timeline, the silver age I think, he pulled an entire twelve planets linked together by a collossul chain to the other side of the universe, the physical strength and speed that would take is beyond belief. But then they toned him way down and just had his powers evolve over time. Oh by the way I don't know if you noticed but I tried to do what you did and respond to different parts of the message, but I unfortunetly failed, so look at the text added to yours.
Last edited by KAIKAGE on Dec 1st, 2012 at 11:21 PM
[QU OTE=14110524]Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Thats the problem with some characters they can't decide their upper limits, they keep changing them.[/qu ote]
To separate quotes
[qu ote]Like with superman, at one version or timeline, the silver age I think, he pulled an entire twelve planets linked together by a collossul chain to the other side of the universe, the physical strength and speed that would take is beyond belief. But then they toned him way down and just had his powers evolve over time.[/qu ote]
Do as I have done
[qu ote]Oh by the way I don't know if you noticed but I tried to do what you did and respond to different parts of the message, but I unfortunetly failed, so look at the text added to yours. [/QU OTE]
Only don't space the area between u and o in "quote".
Gender: Male Location: kirkby, liverpool, merseyside
Well to be honest a super saiyan 4's physical strength should be capable of a lot more, and they never shown any real speed until super saiyan 4 gogeta shown up, I'd say the greatest speed was shown in the fight against frieza's final form and mecha frieza, and when super saiyan goku and super saiyan 2 gohan where fighting perfect cell, and when fat buu was fighting super saiyan 3 goku and finally when super buu with gohan absorbed was fighting super vegito.
Gender: Male Location: kirkby, liverpool, merseyside
Well if you follow the power level guide super saiyan 3 goku should be able to lift around 12,000,000 tons, and it has been stated a few times that GT's base goku is on majin buu's level, so by an ascended super saiyan 4 in the gt series goku should be capable of lifting tens of billions of tons, and thats if he doesn't use a new level of super kaioken. Oh and if you don't know about super kaioken super saiyan goku used it when he was fighting pikkon in the otherworld tournement. Oh and where you as confused as I was when majuub's attack did nothing to super 17 but super saiyan 1 kid goku's attacks appeared to knock the wind out of him.
Gender: Male Location: kirkby, liverpool, merseyside
Well I never paid attention to those power levels because they didn't match the difference each transformation made and they were never mentioned in the series, and they do have a power level for super saiyan 3 goku it was
about 1.1billion, which I never believed. And well how many tons do you think goku could lift when his power level was 340?
Well... This thread demonstrates EXACTLY why mixing DBZ and comic related material is hardly ever a good idea. Bottom line, people can't agree on what should and shouldn't be used or on what is or isn't reality.
I do however, think the majority of issues stem from the pro-comic side's mindset for hypocritical argumentation shortly followed by DBZ fans and their inability to clearly state their arguments.
The biggest neutral problem with these discussions involves simple plot holes though... it really does.
The problem is that DBZ characters were written into plot hole city the minute that Radditz showed up, power levels were introduced and there was never a stated or suggested cap on how destructive their abilities could be. And, with characters like Cell and King Cold making statements about blowing up solar systems, the writing seemed to dictate quite the opposite. This immediately causes conflict with people who argue via power levels and power scaling (which was an established plot point in the story and entirely acceptable) and people who argue strictly based on feats with no regard for what the power levels implied or what the characters necessarily couldn't do because of the limitations for story's sake (i.e. the majority of it taking place on Earth).
When people are in favor of comic book heroes, they typically do not pull from the middle of the road. They want to argue about their characters *best* feats which is understandable. The problem here is that comic book characters regularly do things WAYYYYYYYYYYY outside of their typical range, representation, and power-set for (again) the sake of the story and are thus also wrapped in plot holes.
If you want to argue for comic characters at the top of their game in feats, then it's only fair to use DBZ characters at the top of their game in power scaling (unrestricted by CIS, or plot's sake). If you want to argue against DBZ characters because of a low-end feats, then low-end feats should then be fair game and applicable to both sides.
As a Wolverine fan, I've seen this crazy pro-comic argumentation over and over again. Fans have argued that Wolverine could not cut through characters like Namor, Hulk, Thor, or Colossus because he only scored a glancing blow when he tried, ignoring the fact that Wolverine's claws HAVE to be nerfed for the sake of the story to keep characters alive because when he doesn't, in alternate timelines, or in instances they can be healed etc, he's cut right through every one of these guys like butter.
To me, this is the same thing as someone arguing that Hulk or Superman aren't *that* strong because they don't typically do even city busting collateral damage in the majority of their Earth based/plot centric fights. While that's true, they don't, it's an argument that's disingenuously ignoring what we really know about their strength levels.
Now.....
People want to talk about how Silver Sufer is faster than light and pretend he fights that fast just because he travels that fast.
They want to talk about how he's a planet buster and ignore the fact that he's been knocked off a building by Spider-Man, arm-barred by Black Panther, and knocked unconscious by farmers with a hammer.
They want to talk about how Thor's battled Hercules and lifted (A PORTION OF) the Midgard Serpent but ignore the fact that he's been left defensless by a Spiderman blitz, nearly killed by Crusader, and knocked out by a bullet to the head.
They want to discuss Thanos being a match for Odin or defending himself against Tyrant but don't want to discuss how Rogers outpaced him in h2h, or Gamora broke his jaw in a sparring contest.
oooorrrrrr....
How Wonder Woman was nearly upstaged by Deathstroke in cqc, Batman's dodged superman and his heat vision, Flash gets taken out with boomerangs etc etc...
Or the fact that handbooks are consistently WILDLY inaccurate in the comic world never mind Shonen data-books.
But alternately, when it concerns GOKU! They want to talk about how he had trouble lifting 40 tons but ignore the fact that he was pushing a massive 60-600 ton boulder through the Earth as a small child with a PL under 100.
My interpretation of DBZ: Power Levels and power scaling matter. You CAN NOT discuss these characters and ignore that fact while maintaining any small shred of credibility.
Usng Kaio-Ken, Goku definitively proved that an increase in power level had a direct effect on speed, strength, and power output altogether.
The anime and manga both have numerous examples of how even a moderate increase in PL had an adverse effect between 2 opponents. Zarbon for example, showed that a small increase in PL made him a completely lopsided opponent with a person who was beating (EASILY) him just moments before. So arguing that Goku with a PL of 50 is *only* twice as strong, fast, and powerful as when he had a PL of 25 isn't only generous *against* Goku but likely incredibly inaccurate.
Just because Wolverine didn't cut Punisher in half when they fought doesn't mean he can't and anyone who thinks the opposite is drinking some pretty potent Koolaid to put it politely, the same way that anyone who thinks Goku isn't at planet/multi-planet busting level by the end of the Freiza saga alone is much under the same hollow-headed level of stupidity.
If we are going to argue based on feats alone, then be aware that the feats produced by DBZ characters are pretty much put under the premise of plot hole induced low showings from the start of the series and while Goku has plenty of low showings within the context of his own character fighting other super humans on his own level he doesn't get made to look foolish by any latex wearing peak human heroes... and frankly, there's not many comic characters that can say the same.
Oh and one last thing.. DBZ characters were screaming holes out of dimensions by the end of the series. How convincing can an argument be made against DBZ characters when you're stuck talking about lifting power? lol
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Theres never been an official PL for anything after the Namek saga besides a suppressed Trunks and movie characters. It can be assumed based on proper scaling, but nothing official has been stated.
Couldn't say how much he could lift, cant remember any lifting feats.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
KMC Community Forums
Dec 1st, 2012 04:03 PM
^THIS ALL DAY! 
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
lol
