Cole passively carries enough charge to blow up vehicles simply by sitting in them. (He mentions this in the first game.) Furthermore, all of his attacks have a passive ability as well, such as levitating foes.
Explosives don't have the same incendiary value to them. They rely more on fragmentation and concussive force (real life fact), so how would biomass stand to extreme temperatures? We basically agree on ice, but how would ionic powers barely do anything? I don't see where you're getting that.
Add the fire, and I believe that's enough to put Mercer away. Mercer has no experience dealing with the likes of that, so how can he survive it?
Thats because, just like with guns, he'd involuntarily spark an ignition on both. Anti-gravity floating doesnt pose much of a threat to a guy with both long ranged grapples and air dashes.
Without knowing how hot, his pyro grenades can be compared to real grenades, rockets or HEAT weapon explosions that hit 600C. Mercer also faces Thermobaric weapons that hit 4,000C. Also even though he was splattered, a good chunk of his biomass still survived being close to a nuke. Because draining him wouldn't do much and nor would a tornado that doesn't 'destroy' a chopper.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Cole gets destroyed
Mercers armor and shields can deflect everything cole has, given how quick he can react, one shield up, bye bye cole attack, hello whipfist, goodbye coles chest
1) Alex has shown no on the spot adaptation. That virus Cross inserted on him he needed a doctor to help him out. Only thing I'd accept is that Bloodtox thing, and even then it took so long. Electricity immunity? No. Cole's bolts were enough to power up substations, and take out cars in a few hits while each still having enough capacity to electrify a car.
So that means no blocking with the shield (a default ability) or shrugging off electricity. Especially since it affects cellular regeneration and makes him spasm. Even for one hit Cole can trap him in an infinite loop of zappy zappy. Armor might weaken the effects but overall, it ends for Mercer the moment he gets hit as he has shown no capabilities to form rubber or metal (which would be both useless)
2) Ice is going to hurt Mercer. It will take out a chunk of his biomass if not blocked since it will freeze his biomass. Not as much as electricity but it will still hurt him.
3) Shockwaves that are capable of flipping cars and reducing gravity will keep Alex away.
4) Civilians will run away from the fight once it starts. They're not stupid like in the game, they will run. And once they run away, what does that mean? No food source for Alex unless he runs away. And Cole is not giving him any time
Cole has plenty of energy around. Even if power was cut down, cars and backup generators are around. Even attacking his enemy will give him energy (Righteous strike), or using electrocution grenade and electrifying something to drain more energy
5) Alex is fast. No doubt that is true. But Cole reacts to rockets regularly. And has an ability that allows him to slow down time in his senses. A 350 mph moving train is slowed down. And Alex's max speed, with maximum output courtesy of me, ranged from average 120mph to 250, take your pick. What I'm saying is Cole will tag Alex.
Try it, make your friend stand a dozen meters in front of you, then run towards you. Raise your hand as your life depends on it, and see how much bolts you can fire as your friend dodges.
Alex shoots an average of 3.2 bolts per second. And that's not his fastest move. There's still sticky and redirect rockets.
6) His Gigawatt blades in the comics were enough to shred off a mutant's arms that duked it out with the military. And that thing was absorbing neuroelectricity too so you can add in some electric resistance factor. Those Blades would deal damage to Alex.
7) Ending time
Cole can summon a lightning storm, actually prolonged multiple amount of bolts. Can be held longer, long ranged, controllable current that's not attracted to lightning rods, instant call down.
A single lightning bolt is around 4 -5x the heat of the sun. That bolt's transfer of energy lasts only for 30 microseconds, practically nothing.
Cole can prolong it for 10 seconds. More with karmic overload...
Look at each of those carefully. Look back to me.
A lightning storm would end Alex. Debate to me how it doesn't compare to nuke, I don't care, nuke is overkill on Alex anyway. He will be ended by the storm
Now please do counter my points. I love them both, have both games, and want a debate. Now please do debate with me~
Or else ignoring me would mean Cole's victory.
And PS, the Beast which is a casual city buster and capable of teleporting and creating black holes, will SOLO the whole Prototype verse by himself....
Peace out~!
EDIT
Also, before anyone says it.
Alex Mercer barely survived a nuke.
He was on the edge of the blast, it was underwater and he was washed ashore as pile and goo. Only when the crow landed on him did he regenerate. Granted he would probably live anyway but would take a long time to regenerate, say a day or two.
That would mean KO by Cole, or he can just get rid of Alex on that puddle form.
PS Touching Cole will electrify
Bring it on Alex fans
BRING IT ON
Funny. I was thinking to myself earlier today "Maybe I'll revive the Cole v. Alex thread" with intentions of making a new argument. Lone behold, someone comes along and beats me to it, making the exact same argument I had planned to. Lol, I guess we're back.
Something I missed but quite important, so I'm saying it now before I sleep.
Cole's durability is not important here. Although he's traded blows with giant mutants before. Survived a tower collapsing on him and barely feeling anything, toxic missiles, constant sniper rifles, and being crushed by a magma hand didn't stop him from casting a lightning storm. He's also durable enough to fall from 50 storey buildings, and get hits by train with not much damage, or both. But it doesn't matter, he'll be using graviton shockwaves (which stuns enemies, I can see them struggling to shoot but they aren't able to) or electric tornadoes, which have a habit of scattering electricity once you use it.
He discharges electricity passively. And is enough to electrocute anyone on water with him, and power up trains which take up a lot of energy
He also oneshots choppers, one in a cutscene, the other on a comic. And that time he was weakened.
Cole is capable of hand to hand combat like that dance fighting style, capioera something? And augments his fists with electricity, electrocuting the enemy too. Not saying one can fatally injure Alex, but if he is by any chance grabbed by a hand, (not a weapon, any of Alex weapon is too dangerous and will probably be knocked away) he can punch Alex to stun free himself.
And sorry for double posting. But really needed to get that out
Shields will be advantageous. Humans could safely defend from Cole's attacks with riot shields, so Mercer, being the superhuman he is with a shield capable of blocking stronger explosives, has the defensive if it comes to that. His armoured skin alone is greater than a riot shield.
Besides being Cole's slowest power, it wont take long to recover. Shockwaves or being pushed away are the least of his porblem.
They wouldn't be too far, and given the insane speed difference nothing will stop Mercer from quickly grabbing a snack if needs be.
Concerning Cole its not about whether he'll get the opportunity to drain some power, he wont. Not because he wouldn't get the chance if he needed to, but because any damage he receives from Mercer will leave him in only three states; unconscious, crippled or dead.
That comparison illustrates how Cole shockwaves the RPGs. He sees someone fire one off a couple dozen meters away, raises his hand and sends out a pulse. The main difference is that Mercer is dynamic where the launcher is static, just standing there aiming. Second difference is that Mercer is not a linear projectile. He will move, evade and react to his target.
For those visuals compare a batter getting ready to hit a ball pitched at him, to the same batter reacting to a ball at the same speed that instead of going in a straight line towards him starts moving around like it has a mind of its own.
Tagging Mercer is going to be a lot harder than RPGs.
Said it before and I'll say it again; For Mercer Vs Cole, hand to hand combat is not an option. In that situation Cole loses all advantages he might of had.
To start with the Ionic Storm is powerful and will cause a ton of damage.. but it wont kill him just like that. Damage wise there a big difference between what his lightning does to what Mercer has taken. Blackwatch blew up a large building with Mercer inside and he just walked it off. No armour, just him.
Second is the accuracy. Its known that this attack has troubles hitting moving targets, even low superhuman speed is trouble to hit. Not to mention that he has a limit on usage.
Basically as I've said the single thing a normal Cole has to threaten Mercer is dropping a bolt on him, something Cole would have difficulty with even if it manages to do great harm. Other than that becoming the Beast is the only option. The massive explosion kamakazi would force a temp draw, both slowly coming back from being pasted, so barring that its more even; Ionic storm, gravity and regen Vs Durability, speed, strength and regen.
Cole's durability is greatly important here. Being inside a falling tower or surviving falls is nothing compared to what Mercer dishes out. I mean, the guy has the strength to throw heavily armoured tanks (near 100 tons) hundreds of feet, one-shot them with strong blunt force or his blade, or when in a dive can destroy large buildings.
We have seen the limits of Cole's durability in iF2 when the Militia ram into the car he was standing on. He describes the pain as "a small death", so badly injured that simply crawling away took a lot of effort. This means that Mercer would be able to kill Cole with his bare fists.
TL;DR- Cole would have trouble tagging Mercer with ice or bolts, and wouldn't be too bothered if he was struck not to mention his defences. Best bet is to drop an even harder to tag bolt that is in all honesty below the blast Mercer took unscathed. The worst part is that this will not be a lengthy dual, no. The match will last until Mercer closes the gap and is in Cole's face, meaning Cole has a couple seconds to put down Mercer before his durability gets slaughtered by overwhelming strength
Becoming The Beast is the single option Cole has to defeat Mercer.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Eager for a good debate! Honestly I tried this before, I only faced screaming idiots that don't even know the meaning of grammar. This seems like a new experience
Yes that would usually work. But Alex's shield is particularly, organic. It would be the same as blocking a taser with your arm. Not good I would say. His armor is also organic. It's not made of rubber or metal, and it would be hard to adapt against electricity
But I'm afraid organic, does not work well against electricity. And before the detail of Cole's wattage not downing enemies in one hit, look at civilians. One shot downs them. Enemies on the other hand, take several. You can either take the fact that they're not normal enemies, or gameplay mechanics to be challening.
And I really think it's a bit of both since the Dust Men are using metal armor yet are not being fried in one hit. They should be dying faster than the Reapers but they aren't
Indeed. Cryokinesis is quite slow. But it might be effective when Alex is too close. Yes indeed. There's more problems for him
And I recommend that little stunt I tell people. Raise hand, make your friend try to tag you. One hit is all it takes to stop Alex on his tracks. And with his running speed, there would be a marvellous faceplant that rivals that Zoom main character
Cole's maximum range is almost like six buildings or more. It's not gonna be easy dodging lightning
He can jump to the air or buildings for sure. But Cole's precision and radar pulse would allow to track him. And in the air, there's no chance for electricity to be grounded
Indeed. But he would still need energy to fight. And he gets a lot of those. So maybe he won't be needing to drain at all. That's why I don't recommend close combat and to focus on not getting hit and attacking first. And Cole is capable of that
Yes he would see Cole aiming. But how would he know how he's aiming? Also noticeably Cole can dual task, static thrust and shoot rockets, so what's to say about his other hands? He can shoot bolts at different points too and with the use of his homing rockets it can get dangerous. Alex would have a really hard time dodging, and the closer he gets, the more dangerous it is for him to continue, since one hit will stun him long enough for Cole to initiate other attacks.
I'm a bit confused, since I'm a bit of an idiot, but I think I get it. Yes Alex will be dodging, but how will he dodge what is instant? IF 1 bolts were instant and I could say almost as fast as lightning (you need to be hypersonic at least to dodge those)
Indeed it's going to be hard to tag Alex. But Cole without gameplay mechanics is dangerous.
Indeed, but maybe an addition of precision and gigawatt blades will land him a hit that will allow him to stun alex, that is a gigawatt of electricity in one blade, and escape or push him away. I still don't recommend going melee
Did calculations, lookie lookie!
Nuke is about 83,333,315.56 celsius (50,000,000 to 150,000,000) Fahrenheit hot
In 1 second, there’s 30 microseconds of a terawatt.
In 30 microseconds, there’s enough heat transfer of around 30,000 kevlins (53,540 Fahrenheit)
Sun on the other hand, outer surface is around 6,000 kevlins (10,340 Fahrenheit). Core of course is around 15,000,000 kevlins(27,000,000 Fahrenheit) but we don’t care about that
That’s five times hotter than the sun’s outer surface
1000000 divided by 30 equals to 33,333.33
That would mean one second of Cole’s prolonged lightning storm equals to about (33,333.33 x 4) 133,333.2 times the heat of the sun.
Appetizer = 1 second = 799,999,920 kevlins. That’s more heat than a nuke in one second. By now one second of this you’d be dead
Cole summons multiple bolts of lightning and you can see it longer than the real life version.
If Alex can survive that, then he lives, but it can either count as KO, or Cole can just freeze him. Either way it's a win
I can't post this image but maybe this'll work
i1222.photobucket.
com/albums/dd485/
infamousColeMacgrath/ColeMacgrathFeats
/Colevshelicopter2.jpg
Just remove the spaces
Now depending on what you believe, that can be one of Cole's basic attack or the lightning storm. But either way, he doesn't look that tired after the use of it. Either way, what's that thing about accuracy?
It was instant, and as fast as lightning. Homes in too with large range. I would think the only thing preventing it from catching fast attacks was Gameplay mechanics. But hey, YMMV. Cole can after all just stun Alex then use this once he's down.
That black hole attack along with anti gravity will not fare well for Alex. Issue of air dash? Well I would recommend Alex to train in space first then, when there's no gravity.
Cole's attacks and other feats are not as flashy as drop kicking a helicopter. But I would think his versatility is what makes him balanced and powerful.
I see Mercer ultimately beats Cole on melee combat since he's so much stronger and intelligent. But what's the point of that if you can't touch the enemy? It'd be like Raiden trying to beat Alex.
And yet he survived a tower falling on him, toxic missiles and giant glaciers, clashes with giant mutants, and most importantly being hit by a train. Plot Hole.
But still, Alex will kill Cole in one hit. But what's the point of that if you can't touch the enemy.
Look up.
That would be overkill Cole oneshotted a bunch of carpet bombers from a long distance, and city busts, and has infinite energy and probably The Beast's other abilities. I really don't recommend that
Enjoying this already!
Now excuse me, I'm watching a movie I always wanted to watch. "Now you see me"
Last edited by DatCanadian on Aug 25th, 2013 at 01:50 AM
Also, I missed my chance to edit it in, but anyway, bolts are more effective than bullets since
Bullets: Makes hole on Alex's body, that's it
Bolts: Electrifies whole body, stuns, disables movement or causes involuntary ones, cancels regeneration
And finally, Cole's grenades can bust large barricades, almost the same as a frag grenade. But why doesn't it make civilians or enemies splatter to bits? Rated T game and gameplay challenge.
It'll be boring if you can just oneshot every enemy in infamous.
I just have to say alex mercer WITHOUT gameplay mechanics is very dangerous.
He's far more intelligent than Cole
Physically stronger.
His double whipfist would be to much for Cole he'd get sliced up like bread.
Yes, his blades are metal, organic metal, slices through tank ajd helicopter armor like a warm knife to the butter.
Your argument for the shield and armor being fodder to coles attacks as it would have the same effect is wrong, in the games if you use the armor bullets, rocket, minigun fire all bounces off of you.
Same case with the shield.
In the mercer comics, he gets stunned with electricity numerous times and it doesnt effect him in the slightest
The nuke feat was actually ground zero, he wasnt at the end of the blast radius, but granted it was underwater, not that it should make a difference.
Firstly I do agree! Then again all game characters without those tend to become more powerful
Agreed. Though one hit from Cole can stun him for a combo to an infinite loop of electric bolts. That severely limits what intelligent tactics he can come up
I have to say, that might not help when your enemy has a gun. What I mean, is Cole has the necessary abilities to play keep away with Alex. I do agree that one hit will end Cole
That worked well with Cross right? Anyway shockwaves and dodging will work. But the use of this provides Cole a circuit he can zap Alex with
It looks metallic but mainly its composed of dense organic matter, as Alex's ability is to manipulate biomass. But even if it is metal, it will conduct electricity to him. Not sure where you're heading here
I recall while playing rockets don't bounce off of my armor. And when blocking with the shield, it does make Alex stop to hold it against the blast. Electricity is not the same as modern firearms. It's pure energy.
Think of it this way, would a blocking a taser with a human shield work? Yes, you'll get electrocuted too if you do that, so no.
Really? Care to provide some links to the scans or posting them online? What are those electric sources? Because Cole can direct his electricity accurately, as shown on that scan and when Cole directs a lightning storm yet it never gets attracted to lightning rods. His electricity is way higher in terms of offensive capabilities than a simple taser I would say
What's your point? He still got pulverized even then. A lightning storm would be too much for our friend Alex.
Last edited by DatCanadian on Aug 26th, 2013 at 09:22 PM
I would surely have to disagree that a lightning storm is in anyway hotter than the surface of the sun, if it was that more intense it would set of a chain reaction to earths atmosphere.
And i ment by the blades that they actually are metal, just organic....doesnt make a difference tbh unless they come in melee in which case cole gets snapped in half.
Its a really tough fight to call
But alex would win 6/10
Ill try find some scans for you
And the shields an armor would probably disperse the electrical attacks, but then again hes going to be a much easier target from all of that weight
If mercer actually lets loose with nothing holiding him back, anything that can be used as a projectile, is getting thrown, he is very accurate with projectiles
Natural lightning was enough to be as hot as that as proven by scientists. Cole is just summoning a continuous multiple stream of lightning bolts from the sky dubbed the lightning storm.
Now I do agree it has errors but it would still be warm enough to turn Alex to puddle form. Also not sure where I read it, but some guy told that Alex shrugs off thermobaric shells, when I remember it kills you in one hit if you don't have critical mass
Well then nothing to say there then, Alex cuts Cole in half. Only problem is, he won't be getting close or fast enough to do that with Cole's plethora of abilities.
I do agree it will be a tough fight. But this is a battle that Alex can't afford to get hit once by bolts. Because one bolt would be enough to drive him to the border of barely escaping an infinite combo of lightning attacks.
Thanks!
There's really not much difference with those defense abilities aside from being unable to glide with armor. But organic armor will not counter electricity
And would he have time to pick those up? They are also counterred by shockwaves and rolling. If Alex is too close he can throw faster but also get zapped faster, if he's too far he's a bit more safe but Cole can also easily counter his attacks
Theirs plenty of arguments for this argument between this fight, really original
But i myself will have to call it down the middle and call it even IMO.
But comic Mercer has some great great feats.
If it did come close quarters i think its a possible that alex would consume cole in which case alex would be more powerful than ever!
The new protagonist for infamous, from the looks of the gameplay trailer, looks like he'd own mercer and cole by himself, cant wait to see his other powers
I've only visited the Alex vs cole debates just a few weeks ago. One thing I noticed is that noone really defends Cole so I took the mantle :P You really had to look around to make it even though. And thanks!
Personally they're both awesome guys, and I rather want to see them team up. Lately I've been reading a fic where they team up with Master Chief in the Mass Effect Verse
I agree! They're a lot more even then the naked eye. Both are really vulnerable to each other's attacks but can counter most of them. But even then I side with Cole mainly because he's like Alex's weakness
I want to see them someday. Are they available on the PS3? Maybe if I earn money I'll buy some along with Cole comics so I can just look at their feats instead of searching online
I think Cole's electric body will interfere with Alex's shapeshifting mass actually. He's more like a slim guy while Cole's more of an electric apparition on a human body. But man the fused version of them would be epic
Indeed he looks awesome! Delsin Rowe's smoke and fire powers already make him look like he can handle Kessler.
And now he has terrakinesis and dubstep powers (neon) after getting them from the FETCH trailer.
I doubt he can beat Cole and/or Alex yet though
From what the new guy is shaping up to be though, he looks immense.
I like these type of debates, were you can debate with another user and not begin to insult eachother, and at the end of it call it how it is and agree upon it.
Im not sure if their availible on ps3 but they'll be on DC's website or vertigo, cant remember which it was, im pretty sure it was DC who made the adaptation.
And yes indeed, a fused version of the two would be epic, but id like Mercer to be in control more, IMHO, seeing as he's a lot smarter, he could use the powers of Cole more effectively, plus he'd be gaining Cole's memories, which obviously means his experience, damn, a shapeshifting monster who can control fire, ice and electricty would be a deadly foe.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 9th, 2013 03:33 AM
Cole oneshotted a bunch of carpet bombers from a long distance, and city busts, and has infinite energy and probably The Beast's other abilities. I really don't recommend that
