I haven't addressed the presence of Superman's clone in my replied thus far because there is still zero evidence that he would exist. More to the point though, if Abhi is trying to make Eradicator split his 'programming' to make two Eradicator-occupied bodies on the field, it's duplication.
It's not an independently acting construct, it's creating a second body for Eradicator and then doubling the Eradicator presence on the field, even if the two bodies have different power sets. We can get a host ruling on it if Abhi would like.
However, again, I still don't believe the plan is remotely feasible and so, in the absence of a host ruling, I'm going to explain why that is:
I wrote that Abhi was missing two components that were present to repeat Eradicator's previous feat of creating a Kryptonian clone:
a) A host to occupy the body
b) the 30 years of stored energy inside Clark's body
Further, should a body be created, it would be missing two essential parts of Superman:
c) A body capable of absorbing sunlight
d) Superman's memories
Abhi avoided effectively replying to any of these points:
a)
Scans of multiple Eradicators existing at the same point in time: one bonded with David Connor, the other with the Fortress. No scan of an Eradicator creating a second body for itself and living as the host in both. Note that the Kem-L persona lived through fortress technology, did not create a 'whole new body for himself' (he attacked Clark mentally from the tech and was destroyed when the figure was destroyed), and falls under the 'the other with the Fortress' category of Eradicator identities.
No scan showing that Eradicator is even capable of willfully splitting his identity into two bodies. This only happened in the comics because: Superman forcefully dispersed Eradicator, some of the energy would go on to be dormant until bonding with David Connor (not existing on its own), some would go on to bond with Fortress tech (after being reassembled by Fortress tech).
b)
Maybe he has the energy required to do this because Krypton Man can channel the sun's energy - we don't know, because he's never done this before (see: once again, not Krypton Man's feat).
However, we do know that it doesn't matter because of c)
c)
Maybe, but the scan shows he needed a matrix within the fortress to make that change, he couldn't do it himself.
Whoa, not the kryptonians he created. The scan refers to the 'Eradicator matrix' as abducted by Brainiac, and is related only in name to the Eradicator that existed as Krypton Man.
THIS is specifically why I referenced the wikipedia article, because the amount with which Abhi is trying to pull the wool over judges' eyes is ridiculous. At least the wiki article lays out the Eradicator history plain for everybody to see. I have provided scans for all my points regarding the Eradicator identity crisis, but wikipedia serves as a separate document that provides a timeline for all this stuff.
Anyways, the scan has nothing to do with Krypton Man, could employ shitloads of outside tech that Eradicator doesn't have here, and, perhaps most importantly, gives no timeline. We have no idea if Eradicator can create a kryptonian body in 5 minutes, which is all he has here for prep.
d) Uh... I have no idea what you're referring to, cause it doesn't say any of that in the scan.
Even if it could be backed up by other evidence, that would only store Superman's memories until 1989. So please stop using scans from the last two and a half decades.
Finally, I'll stress again, Krypton Man's circuitry and programming was destroyed in the sun. Provide proof that Krypton Man hold's all of Superman's memories or we'll assume that anything he did remember was lost when he had his 'unique rebirth'.
Telekinesis and the Eradicator
To reiterate:
Previous to his telekinesis being God-like, Cable proved he could manipulate energy forms:
*For this feat, Sinister had temporarily removed his TO virus, which is the same reason he became so powerful in his God-like persona. He didn't show anything close to the same level of power, but did move this energy beam, which is totally transferrable.
(for what it's worth, it might have been totally inherent in his atomic-restructuring feats that he could manipulate energy, but I'm glad to have even pre-messiah Cable scans back up the feat).
The plan still stands: Cable wills Eradicator's body sundered, and it becomes sundered. Much like how Superman beat Krypton Man in the first place, by scattering his energy to the wind.
Abhi's defence:
Krypton Man stood up to punches from Superman
Fine, I'll just continuously apply the same energy that it took to levitate Providence or break Surfer's board, and beat the hell out of Krypton Man. I have telekinesis and can apply this attack at all angles, from any distance, however I want, for as long as I want.
ALSO: Krypton Man's physical durability against Superman has nothing to do with Krypton Man's durability while intangible, as he is in this match. We know that Krypton Man refers to his own body and all its variations as malleable and so durability from a solid Krypton Man means nothing to an intangible one.
Your tendency to repeat yourself is amusing. But like I said you don't make a wrong fact right by repeating yourself "ad nauseaum". Krypton Man's essence used T-vo. Case dismissed.
That's the version being used here.
A different version, being controlled by the mind of David Conner. Non-applicable in every term.
Alright, bring it on.
HE COULDN'T DETECT LIGHTMASTER AT ALL. We know Cable had planetary TP and knew of everything at all time. He was constantly in contact with every thought in the world, yet he couldn't detect him at all. That's proof enough in its own that he couldn't lock on his thoughts to identify him.
Haha, "noooo, this be off topic. I can't counter this so its off topic." Great move.
Either a liar or you purposely hid context from us. What is it?
That part never happened. He never manipulated photons and neither did he transmit it on his own. So yeah, you lied about the context.
His thoughts have been converted into pure light. His suit is physical. As stated here.
Cable can easily control his suit. Nobody said it otherwise.
Well, he never did move Lightmaster's energy form without either covering him with debris or manipulating his suit.
And you never mentioned a machine *at all*.
That's what you said. Don't backtrack now.
manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)
Tell us more where you mentioned a machine.
That's some huge leap in logic. All Cable did was redirect lasers or redirect Lightmaster using his suit. He never ripped apart an energy being or so much as manipulated it as Smurph is trying to act here. And he can't control Krypton Man's energy form, because he is a superior energy manipulator.
Heh, not really.
Sure thing bro.
I don't.
Haha, come on.
Heh, not because of his telepathic powers. And he knew it because Irene had warned him about it.
Haha, seriously? He saw Lightmaster and said he was returning sooner than he expected. That's it. Nowhere did he psionically tracked Lightmaster.
Stubborn to the very end, eh? We'll see about that.
He could feel the electronic disturbance and the fact that the robots in FOS had their programming changed..........from space. But since smurph said it, Eradicator doesn't has electronic senses. Bwahahaha.
David Conner had no experience using T-vo and that's not the version being used here. But keep rambling.
Eh, what the hell?
Once again using "lack of programming"?
Seriously?
First put a scan where Cable breaks any energy being and then we will talk. Untill then, I have no reasons to even think about that scenario.
You know what? I don't think I've ever seen someone so full of himself. Superman destroyed Eradicator's programming inside a magic crystal which was making his programming unstable. Learn to read.
A flat out lie which smurph keeps repeating.
Neither of them are machines. Next.
Everything I said is backed by scans. Unlike you.
His thoughts are still pure light and cable can't lock on them.
A different version of Eradicator with a different mind altogether. Try next time.
It could've been a century after that and it wouldn't change a single thing. But I like how you keep trying to use David Conner as Kem-L version of Eradicator.
The essence only lived through Fortress. It didn't use machinery to attack Superman by T-vo.
A hilarious strawman. Spider-man never beat down Firelord saying he was an amateur and Firelord saying he can't hold Spider-man back. But now I KNOW you're desperate.
Hahaha, way to dismiss feats. "I don't like it so it doesn't counts." What is this? CBR?
If you really think so, you're more ignorant than I thought.
How many times do I have to tell you, that's because he was amnesiac and didn't know how to create a body.
Haha.
Eradicator matrix is the core programming of any eradicator version. But if you like, he was the one who modified Kryptonians to have powers under the yellow sun and die if leaving Krypton.
While he was amnesiac, had resistance from Superman's body and powerless. It would be child's play to create a kryptonian body at full power for himself.
d) Uh... I have no idea what you're referring to, cause it doesn't say any of that in the scan.[/quote] Its a three issue long sequence.
So, he is still faster than nanosecond reaction time.
Haha, no. Eradicator had his full programming and all his memories as a kryptonian artifact. How do you think he retained the memory of krypton?
Redirect lasers. Not manipulating or splitting them.
Moving an energy beam and doing anything to Eradicator are TWO different scenarios. Eradicator has total control over his energy form and is A FAR better energy manipulator than cable.
You're really good at lying. Superman destroyed Eradicator's programming in a magic crystal.
FYI, a small portion of sun's EM field can easily destroy earth. That's FAR BEYOND Cable's power. And Eradicator had no problem taking it despite weakened by it. Case dismissed.
And for the last time, where did Cable rip apart an energy being? Because all you've shown is Cable redirecting a laser and redirecting Lightmaster.
This is probably my last post, I'm just about done with everything I have to say. If Abhi brings new stuff to light in his response, I might reply, but I'm expecting more of the same and I feel confident letting this go to a judge ruling soon.
"Cable allowed the facade virus to intermingle with Lightmaster's incorporeal form and, in layman's terms, telekinetically blew the sumbeech up! A second sun blanketed the planet..."
... so, that pretty much settles this debate, right?
Cable blows Krypton Man up in the same manner, much like Superman's magical crystal did to kill Krypton Man in the first place.
Abhi's defense:
He's provided this as proof that Eradicator's intangible form has a defence feat, but the only time we see Eradicator intangible, it's in an effort to avoid Superman's fist, and it's not a defence feat- Superman just says that Mercury's magnetic field (note: Mercury, not the Sun, as Abhi would have us believe) is f*cking up Eradicator's powers. Nothing to bolster the belief that Eradicator would be any harder to tear apart than Lightmaster.
It is interesting though... I mean, if the magnetic field of Mercury can mess with Eradicator's powers, and he's up against Cable's psi-powers, which passively were strong enough to ionize Earth's atmosphere, imagine what Cable could do to mess with Krypton Man's powers if he actively intended to...
Lastly, Abhi defends Krypton Man, saying that he's a better/more proven energy manipulator than Cable, but let's take a closer look:
That's all perfectly neato , but mostly irrelevant.
Cable used TK to amp himself to be strong enough to crack Surfer's board in two. You've dismissed this saying that Morg, Terrax and Firelord have all done the same thing, but, well... Terrax is the lamest of the three, and he's destroyed a planet with an axe strike. So I'm cool with the comparison.
See, it doesn't matter if Krypton Man can extend control over the whole planet. Cable can too - remember his ionizing the planet's atmosphere? - but it's not the point.
What Cable can do is be really strong with his telekinesis, apply that strength to Krypton Man's energy form, and sunder it. Even if Krypton Man can ultimately affect more energy, it doesn't give him a stronger pull.
What I mean:
Giganta can grab more with her hands than Superman, because her hands are huge. Does that make her stronger?
Xavier has reached 8 billion minds with his telepathy when he channelled the emotions of the Skrull homeworld. Cassandra Nova has no feats suggesting she could replicate the same thing, but she has casually stomped Chuck in a one-on-one telepathic fight.
I don't care if Krypton Man can affect the whole sun, he has no feats to suggest he can outpower Cable.
This is backed up by Krypton Man's appearances in comics too:
Being a proven energy manipulator with powers from the sun didn't stop Superman from dispersing him with a magic crystal, it didn't stop Mercury's magnetic field from tampering with his powers, it didn't allow him to put himself back together after he was ripped apart- he needed the Fortress robots to do that for him.
Apparently as soon as Krypton Man starts to rip up, his programming is destroyed (see: Eradicator's programming getting destroyed in the heat of the sun; Krypton Man's programming getting destroyed when the magic crystal spewed his energy everywhere) and he can't easily reconstitute himself. In the sun, he needed to bond with solar energies and, over time, put himself back together. As an energy ghost, he needed to access Superman's stored solar energies and put himself back together. In the fortress, he needed the robots to put him back together and bond with fortress tech.
Even here:
What do I do now?
I find myself unable to absorb and utilize this essence fully... but I can utilize its knowledge...
I improvise... somehow using the materials available... the essence and reality of the dead.
I focus... twist.. mold...
And I become... not alive yet... not quite real...
But powerful nonetheless
Further proof that Eradicator needs outside materials to put himself back together, that he needs an unspecified amount of time, that he needs an outside host/essence or, at the very least, outside energies.
So no, Abhi, I don't think that Eradicator's abilities to manipulate energy have anything to do with Eradicator's abilities to heal himself when his opponent destroys him.
Finally, you know who is a far better and more proven energy manipulator than Eradicator?
Silver Surfer.
Didn't stop Cable from smashing his board when he decided he'd had enough.
Other Stuff: Defensive Actions and Healing
If Eradicator gets any attacks in, Cable with happily repel them with shields, continue to make himself telepathically invisible, use illusions to distract, teleport, and - because he's such a goddamn fabulous multitasker - press his attack simultaneously.
Incidentally, that same multitasking strength will allow him to instantly repair shields the moment they are damaged, just as he instantly repaired the world atomically throughout his fight with Surfer.
Finally, if he gets damaged: remember that Cable was durable enough to brush off the blitz from Surfer without showing any damage, and remember that Cable has Deadpool's healing factor - any damage sustained will be repaired immediately.
Conclusion
In my opening post, I emphasized three points that I feel are really important in this battle:
God-like Cable is one of the best multitaskers in comics. He spent 24 hours a day listening to the entire world's thoughts and responding as needed. He defended himself from an attack from the Silver Surfer, repaired all the damage from their battle on an atomic level, continued to levitate Providence, and continued to attempt to reach Surfer telepathically.
This multitasking ability will allow him to press all of his offensive and defensive actions against Krypton Man simultaneously. My opponent has no proof that he can defend himself on a telepathic or telekinetic front, much less simultaneously.
God-like Cable has global telepathy, and a huge amount of telepathic weight to bring crushing on Eradicator's domepiece. These telepathic wavelengths also ionized Earth's atmosphere and could mess up Krypton Man's powers, just like Mercury's magnetic field.
God-like Cable has never been seen in combat fully rested, with the amount of energy and power he will have here.
- Cable can begin his attack immediately, he has no need to break through a shield.
- The Super-Clone still lacks any basis in comic books to believe that Eradicator can split his programming and control two bodies at once. The closest comic book comparison is this, and involves, once again, creating a separate identity, not simply controlling a construct, and therefore is duplication as per Battlezone rules.
- The reason that the distinction between duplication and controlling a construct is important is because the first simply doubles an opponent's presence on a battlefield, and the second divides that presence across two bodies. If there is only one mind, and not 'split programming', then Cable will resume his assault on that one mind, which will be even less capable of defending itself when it is split between two bodies. At any rate, Eradicator lacks the feats to show that he can control two bodies with one personality. Every instance Abhi shows (David Connor, Fortress merged Eradicator, Brainiac merged Eradicator, undead Eradicator) demonstrates a second emerging mind/personality, and not simply the creation of a construct.
This is my last post too. I'e countered everyone of your points and this is just getting repetitive.
That would be a gross misdirection based on a recap. As we saw on panel, all cable did was redirect the Lightmaster in the machine and that did all the work.
That was done by a machine which was designed to convert Lightmaster into photons and send him to the optical lines of the world to turn it pink. As explained here, the Façade virus was meant to be delivered by the Deliverance Machine to optical lines.
Don’t believe me? Here’s the official bio of Lightmaster saying the exact same thing.
(please log in to view the image)
Can't believe you're still parroting it after I posted the whole context.
Of course not.
That was a soul stealing device which was making Eradicator's programming unstable. And Superman's soul destroyed his programming. Superman's body was in the real world.
Can there be a chance that..........sun's EM field might be more powerful than Mercury's? NO WAY!!!! As we saw, he was in the sun's core as an energy being without any physical form and was totally fine.
If that much power can't rip Eradicator's energy form apart, Cable can't do shit to him when he has never actually done that to an energy being.
Also comparing Lightmaster to Eradicator is lulzworthy. Lightmaster can't survive without his ****ing suit, he will disperse as he has no control over his body. Eradicator has full control over his body and EM spectrum.
Also why is smurph treating Eradicator like an idiot who can't turn tangible?
Keep dreaming bro.
Just messed with his powers who then manhandled Superman. Even sun's EM field couldn't do anything to him.
That's matter manipulation, here is the list of energy manipulation feats.
Yeah, and that's nothing compared to manhandle Superman like nothing.
HA, ABC comparison now? In fact Byrne Superman has far better strength feats than Terrax, Firelord or Morg. Like moving both moon and Earth from another solar system.
Ionizing atmosphere? LOL. Eradicator was doing that even before he made himself a physical being, changing atmosphere across the world and doing shit like that.
First physical strength is meaningless against an energy being and Eradicator outright manhandled Superman.
That's far better than getting matched in strength by ****ing silver surfer.
If Giganta could manhandle Superman and toss him in the sun like nothing?
Just like Eradicator has manhandled Superman. Cable couldn't do that to surfer, who we all know is weaker than Superman.
HAHAHAHA. Way to prove Cable's superiority. Basically "**** it, my character is cooler!!!".
Being a proven energy manipulator with powers from the sun didn't stop Superman from dispersing him with a magic crystal,[/quote] Correction, it was destabilizing Eradicator's programming and it was Superman's soul. Treat it like soulworld. Lots of out of context whining there. Tampering=/=tearing him when he outright manhandled
You got that backward. After his programming was destroyed by Superman's soul. Cable can't remove his soul to attack Eradicator's programming here. Get this in your brain It was Superman's soul in that crystal which destroyed Eradicator's programming. Not his energy form.
WTF? He did that rather instantly, used some materials in the phantom zone while he was a powerless wraith. Here he is at the peak of his power and has quite some materials in the supermarket gundam has provided.
You can't destroy Eradicator's programming. That's the only way to disperse his energy form.
He isn't. He needs outside power to stabilize a sun when his most powerful attacks can't do that on its own.
That............doesn't mean anything. The board isn't an energy form. ****, durok has smashed his board, what does that means?
I have successfully countered each one of these points, while Smurph has only dismissed my whole argument without any kind of proof. Cable can't lock on Eradicator's mind, he would get crushed in a TP battle, teleportaion isn't allowed and Eradicator shits on cable in terms of multitasking.
He has never done that to his shields. Rearranging matter=/=rerranging his own TK shields. And Eradicator would smash his shields open with one shot which KTFO Superman and wring his neck.
And got oneshotted by Silver Surfer when he was done playing. Knocked out by bullets to the brain, KOED by lightning etc.
That has nothing on Eradicator's multitasking. He can simultaneously turn sun red, transmute entire earth, beat the shit out of superman and shit just for teh lulz.
...........
Bwahahaha. Oh smurph, you like your own words so much.
Eradicator crushes Cable in TP combat by T=vo.
I object milord. Lets look another way. You know the mysterious power up Superman got in 90's? Yeah, the astral combat technique known as T-vo. Yeah, the same technique which allowed him to to first stalemate Dominus.
Now we've established Superman would push Cable's shit in astral combat using T-vo, right? Well. Superman was totally helpless against a fraction of Krypton Man's persona embedded in Fortress which Lois accidentally took to their apartment.
Pretty speculative TBH. Although he did got exhausted by removing a virus from someone's body at full power. So meh.
This is just repeating your own argument without any kind of rationale. I have already addressed this multiple times over. No need to do it again.
And judges, Smurph has lied several times over in this thread.
He lied about Cable manipulating Lightmaster's energy form.
He lied about Eradicator having no programming.
He lied about Eradicator having no electronic senses.
He lied about Eradicator never appearing in two bodies simultaneously.
He lied about Superman destroying Eradicator's energy form, when it was really Superman's soul destroying Eradicator's energy in an environment which was already destabilizing his programming.
Among several other small out of context information to misdirect everybody. That should be taken into consideration. That's all.
Man, I am sooooo over being called a liar. I know I said I was done posting, but this is way too out of line to not correct.
Let's see who's lying, shall we?
The Lightmaster Debacle
Abhi is becoming increasingly caustic in his replies because he thinks that if judges realize what Cable does to Lightmaster in these scans, they'll understand that Cable can do the exact same thing to Krypton Man's incorporeal energy form at the beginning of this match.
When this fight was first brought up, all that I focused on was how Cable redirects Lightmaster's flying body into a septic tank holding a virus, because I felt what was really important was witnessing how Cable's telekinesis could affect an energy form.
Abhi actually accused me of lying (), thinking I meant to say that Cable had Lightmaster's photons bond with the virus, and then sent the virus across the world.
I don't know if that was Abhi's moment of brilliance or if he just touched upon some truth in his rage-blithering, but if we re-read the scans, we can see that that is exactly what Cable does.
^ This is the recap at the beginning of the issue. Important things:
It mentions the Deliverance Device, which will become really important
It refers to the Facade Virus, which is the virus in question that Cable eventually delivers via Lightmaster's energy form around the world
It indicates how Cable became God Cable - Abhi would have us believe that God Cable exhausted his energies extracting the Facade Virus from someone's body, but that was before he became God Cable. Cable didn't reach God-Like status until he bonded with Deadpool's healing factor, which would go on to fight the TO Virus in his body and let him become Cyber Jesus Uninhibited. Cable only bonded with Deadpool's healing factor in order to fight the Facade Virus in each of their bodies, and they were infected with the virus after Cable removed the virus from the teen's body, the feat abhi references.
For clarity:
Cable finds the virus with teens in Germany, removes it, exhausts himself
Cable tracks down the Deliverance Device and both he and Deadpool are infected by the virus
Cable and Deadpool's bodies bond via bodyslide, Cable gets Pool's healing factor, enter God Like Cable
I'm sure Abhi knows this already... but then again, he would never lie to judges, would he?
^ This is Cable's fight with Lightmaster, important things:
They mention the Deliverance Device, and confirm that Cable destroyed it in France. The describe the device: it was meant to take the Facade Virus (a liquid subject) and 'piggyback it' onto optic/internet lines to give people the virus via their TVs and computer monitors
They also mention the problem: it would take too long. There are parts of the world that don't have internet or TVs. 'misguided souls'
The solution: Lightmaster. He can convert the 'face-changing agent' into lightwaves. They NEVER mention a second Deliverance Device that could deliver Lansky across the world, only imply that Lightmaster was meant to bathe those 'misguided souls' with the same virus-light that others would receive through their television sets.
Cable does it for them. He drops Lansky into the liquid-holding tank that contains the Facade Virus, allows it to bond with his form and then blows up Lansky across the world, transmitting the virus everywhere.
Abhi has tried to tell you this is misleading, but it's a recap by the exact same authors, and all that he has to refute it is a bio written by somebody else.
The recap also confirms that Lightmaster's form was incorporeal, and that Cable used telekinesis to create a 'second sun'.
With these scans, we know that it is a viable tactic to do the same thing to Krypton Man because, per Abhi's write-up, KM is an intangible energy form at the start of the match.
Conclusion (Actually done this time!)
Krypton Man will be prey to Cable from the beginning of the match. Godlike Cable will simply overwhelm his mind and sunder his energy form with TP and TK from the moment the match starts.
There is no Superclone, based on a sheer lack of evidence. If judges believe Abhi anyways, realize that it means Eradicator's mind will be split across two bodies and will be much easier for Cable to overwhelm telepathically. Otherwise, Cable will simply take control of the Superclone for his own purpose.
If his mind is not split across two bodies (which he is incapable of anyways, as per the scans), then Abhi has attempted to duplicate his mind, which is illegal
Krypton Man has never used T-Vo. His energy form has a set of powers completely different from all other Eradicator incarnations. We don't even know if his body is capable of T-Vo, much less still remembers how to use it.
K, judges, it's all yours.
Last edited by Smurph on Jun 24th, 2014 at 06:21 PM
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Jun 21st, 2014 11:32 PM
, but mostly irrelevant.
