Just like Littlefinger caused the War of the 5 Kings but didn't fight it himself, so too did Vitiate cause all those events to occur through his manipulation of the characters, hence why he is the mastermind behind them. Vitiate may not have actively managed them, but he was the sole root cause of the Mando Wars and the JCW. It's irrelevant if he actively engaged in either, both were started by him for his purposes and succeeded in achieving them.
Your ripple effect argument is frankly idiotic, since it ignores intent. Ragnos and Vitiates dad didn't intend for Vitiates actions to occur and had no idea they would. Vitiate however purposefully started the Mando and Jedi Civil Wars with the goal of weakening the Republic and Jedi and was wildly successful in that task. Just like Palpatine he had a plan and carried it out through manipulation and corruption.
This is kind of a red herring. Vitiate liberally kicked ass against enemies and allies alike, created shittons more Dark Side nexuses, kept far more powerful apprentices firmly under heel, conquered a planet at thirteen, waged an open war against the Republic and Jedi Order which lead to the Sack of Coruscant and a forced peace treaty which favors the Sith, kept the Dread Masters around as pals, and treated Revan and co. like feebs.
Sidious had to backstab the entire Order because he very nearly lost in solo combat with Mace or Yoda. He could not openly challenge the Jedi Order, because he was weaker and could not grow/maintain an Empire. Vitiate took the refugees from the Great Hyperspace War and made them into a force that nearly broke the Republic.
Vitiate intended for Revan to remake the Republic into a powerhouse? Because that's what Revan was doing. I'm pretty sure Vitiate didn't intend for Kreia to nuke the Force; that is what she was doing. Such things are side effects, which are not proof of causation. And the first Jedi Purge, didn't even kill as many Jedi as you're arguing, because a lot of them joined the other side from the outset. Revan was not trying to kill Jedi from the start. One could say Traya did, but by that point, most of them were already following her.
I personally think Vitiate's pretty powerful, but there's almost no chance that he planned for all the following events when Revan met him. Unless you also find someway to convince me that he planned for Revan to try to kill him and then hold him in check for 300 years. I fail to see how Tempest comparison is any different from yours, because all Vitiate really wanted was the Star Forge and the Foundry, once the Mandalorian Wars had concluded. The purging was irrelevant, because he could have easily done that himself. Dude is planning to consume the entire galaxy; he needs all of the death to happen at once, and certainly not only that of the Jedi.
Except the only conflict of the three (Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War, and the subsequent purges) for which Vitiate is directly responsible is the Mandalorian War. The Jedi Civil War was initiated and waged by Revan and Malak, who did so under their own ambitions. The purges conducted by Nihilus and Sion have nothing at all to do with Vitiate.
FreshestSlice already addressed this. Vitiate didn't start the Jedi Civil War and had nothing to do with its events.
This conveniently ignores the fact that Vitiate was psychically manipulated by Revan for three centuries and was the target of multiple conspiracies, one of which ultimately cost him his life (Scourge).
Since Sidious's plan was designed and set into motion long before he crossed swords with Yoda and Mace, I have to assume you're trolling.
Is this also trolling or are you offering this as a legitimate contention?
It is rather pathetic you give Vitiate the "thumbs up" Neph, rather then Revan. Revan and Malak openly defied Vitiate shortly after his mind-domination and began their own Empire. If anything, Vitiate nearly failed completely. The Empire's purpose would have been to unite the Republic and their own Empire against Vitiate's, and he would have been utterly crushed. Ultimately, Bastila Shan was the only thing that saved Vitiate from not having his shit stomped in him.
"It was ironic that Canderous was sharing all this with the architect of the Mandalorians' greatest defeat."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan
Vitiate's "legendary" Mandalorian Wars only resulted in the Mandalorian's getting kicked in the ass by Revan. The only accomplishment for Vitiate that came out of the war was Revan's fall to the Dark Side, which was incredibly short lived at best, for shortly afterwards he created a rival Empire. Hardly something to worship Vitiate about. Malachor V shouldn't also be worshiped over as a Vitiate accomplishment...according to HK-47 and GOTO, it was completely of Revan's design. And then, to think the Dark Wars has anything related to Vitiate is silly. In it had a character who would have ate Dromaund Kaas itself.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Watching people try to argue that Sidious is immensely above Vitaite, or that Vitiate is immensely above Sidious makes me cringe and facepalm.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Emperor Vitiate orchestrated both events, Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War. His plan was to set events in motion that would result in destruction of the Jedi Order and also the Republic. After this, he would steamroll the Republic and conquer the galaxy. His plan worked but Revan changed the game by delaying the pre-planned invasion of the Republic from the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire for 300 years.
Some information from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan:-
Reborn as Sith, the newly named Darth Revan and Darth Malak were tasked with a vital mission for the Emperor - to secure the Star Forge, an ancient installation built more than 25,000 years earlier by the Rakata Infinite Empire. In the hands of the Emperor, the Star Forge could produce an endless supply of attack ships and war machines - the perfect fuel for the Empire's impending war with the Republic.
Whether the entire chain of events turned out to be exactly as planned by Emperor Vitiate or not is irrelevant, fact is that his involvement in galactic affairs resulted in the destruction of the Jedi Order and a severely weakened Republic. He had the option to steamroll the Republic after these developments but Revan prevented him.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jun 20th, 2014 at 03:31 PM
Sidious is above Vitiate, but the only realm in which I'd agree he's "immensely" above him is with respect to accomplishments. Dude accomplished more in decades than Vitiate did in a millennium plus.
He orchestrated the beginning of both wars, but ultimately had no control in them. Revan both times destroyed his control over the war, firstly by kicking the Mandalorian's asses, and later by breaking from his mind control.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Jun 20th, 2014 at 03:33 PM
Bro that's a huge ASOIAF spoiler. Total dick move. But Littlefinger indirectly caused the War of Five Kings, just as Vitiate indirectly caused the Jedi Civil War. This is exactly what Tempest said, Vitiate was only directly responsible for the Mandalorian Wars. The other conflicts happened and were not a part of his plan. If they were he certainly would have invaded after the Jedi Civil War and the purge as he'd find a virtually Jediless galaxy and a negligable Sith Empire. He'd roll, hell the Senate may put the damned crown on him themselves
__________________
The North Remembers
Last edited by Lord Stark on Jun 20th, 2014 at 03:36 PM
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
You see that doesn't make me cringe, because you are not arguing a large power difference between them or ridiculously placing their power.
What does make me cringe and facepalm is Carthage's belief that Vitiate is so unrealistically low that would get ragdolled or by one of Sidious's apprentices.
And Legend's view that Vitaite is so unrealistically high that he is far beyond Sidious and is infact Abeloth level. That also makes me cringe and facepalm.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
You are mistaken about this, Vitiate had a superpower under his disposal and was set to conquer the galaxy at this point. However, he decided to orchestrate civil wars within the Republic to significantly weaken it so that his victory would be assured after the invasion.
Revan did manage to defy his will (partially I may add), Vitiate wasn't helpless or dependent upon him for his plans. Civil Wars happened and they resulted in destruction of the Jedi Order and a severely weakened Republic. Vitiate would have steamrolled the Republic after these events but Revan prevented this from happening and bought both the Jedi Order and the Republic time to prepare for any eventuality within the span of 300 years.
Don't put words in my mouth. I have never claimed that Emperor Vitiate is far stronger then Sidious (DE) or he is Abeloth level. However, I do believe that he is a TOP-TIER Force-user and is capable of challenging virtually any Force-user, possibly win some.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jun 20th, 2014 at 03:40 PM
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Uhhhhhh yeah you've pretty much outright said Vitiate was Abeloth Level.
And as far as TOP-TIER force wielders go, nobody belonging to the Jedi or Sith Orders is on that level.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Jun 20th, 2014 02:32 PM
