Well, that was partly what I was getting at. For example, I used to occasionally hold pads for a guy who went over to fight in Thailand. And beyond the fact that that shit hurt (seriously, that big bastard bruised my forearms through the pads), it took a lot of energy bracing myself for the hits, to the point where I was usually also sweating and breathing hard after a while. Granted, that guy had over 40lbs on me, but I am a sucker for punishment. But anyway, the actual point is that, yeah, just the act of blocking and dodging hits takes a toll, and Steve is an endurance tank. So, even if we assume Ozy can take Steve's blows well enough to block them, for how long can he keep it up though? Long enough to outlast a guy who, right after being transformed, chased down a car and then a mini-sub and wasn't even breathing hard afterwards. And that's one of his less impressive stamina feats.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Everyone agrees that it's a feat. We just don't agree that it proves what h1 claims it does. IE, it doesn't prove that Ozy saw the bullet in slow motion nor that he can actually fight at that speed.
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
Well, as I said, I think it's probably more a case of reflexes and muscle memory. Because people in that universe can apparently reach higher levels than real life humans can via conditioning and training. And Ozy seems like he commits to everything he practices with full dedication. I mean that is one of the main points of repetition in training. You condition yourself to be able to take a defensive or avoiding action without needing to consciously analyze the situation first. The response has been hardwired into you via practice. Am I saying Ozy spends his days having people shoot at him? No. But he likely, in universe, has a very strict fitness and training regime that he maintains to keep himself at peak performance. He seems like the kind of guy.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Feb 1st, 2020 at 03:09 AM
But you would agree that it doesn't prove he actually saw the bullet in slow motion or that he could fight at that speed?
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
1) I would like to reiterate that h1 is a troll. You can literally deconstruct his posts where you can see the bait and hook. I’ve reiterated already that the best thing to do would be to ignore him.
2) But I acknowledge that people are bored. And that his troll game is a masochist “beat me up, senpai” kind of trolling and that people are bored so I guess have at it. stick out tongue
3) You guys already had it 3 or so pages ago. And DDM (whether intentional or not) already pretty much cracked it. It’s how Ozy fights. He fights with both feet planted flat on the ground and tends to do it at close distance against his opponents and simply blocks/counters more than dodges. Anyone with a casual understanding of MMA (those who watch MMA fights for example) would know that this leaves you open to shots/tackles/grapples/grabs/takedowns/etc. Doesn’t matter how fast your hands are, it comes down to how fast your feet move (to dodge an incoming shot/tackle). You can block it, sure, but you’ll need to have either a solid clinch game or have a solid sprawl. Otherwise, you’ll need solid ground game/grappling skills. Ozy has none of those (or at least I don’t recall ever seeing him having any). I’m surprised the more knowledgeable MMA people haven’t pointed this out, tbh.
Furthermore, with basic deductive logic we can easily break down the fight here:
If Comedian = tackles Ozy
And Cap > Comedian in speed/strength and > skill in grappling
Then Cap => tackle Ozy
If Cap grappling > Ozy grappling (where Ozy grappling = 0)
Then Cap wins via choke/submission/ground and ground.
Breaking it down. Ozy’s striking/blocking/counter fighting style is extremely vulnerable to Cap’s more well rounded style (grappler/striker/submission) and it doesn’t matter if Ozy can block all his strikes, one takedown (for where Ozy has little to no defense) and it is over.
Last edited by Nibedicus on Feb 1st, 2020 at 05:28 AM
H1 how can anyone take your arguments seriously? You're practically the little boy that would walk straight to the back of the school bus with a greasy grin hopefully you don't get in trouble at lunchtime for being yourself.
__________________ 2 spellcasters are better than 1
You are the troll. You are flaming me and trolling me.
I provide arguments to debate. This is a debate forum yes?
If someone disagrees then they should respectfully tell why. It's not hard. Failure to address my arguments shows a lack of debating skill and or laziness.
A troll is someone who ignores evidence and doesn't address someone else's argument (whether it's valid or not). A troll flames. A troll isn't a person who sides with the unpopular belief.
You just provided an argument (in which I will rebut in a second).
That's called debating.
No one did that. And what about Silent? You don't see him as trolling? A being catching a bullet in mid air has to have superhuman reflexes and speed. But noooo. You rather allow him to Troll since he's supporting your character.
Anyway. Here's the rebuttal
1. Cap doesn't sprawl or clinch. And if he ever did it was extremely rare. He fights fisticuffs (punches and kicks). That's his character. Just look at all his one on one fights.
2. Perceiving and reacting to a bullet implies that you have superhuman perceptions and speed. Ozy would see a tackle coming a mile away. He defended against a tackle at the very beginning of the Rorschach fight. The comedian showing is unusable for several reasons.
A. Characters fight at their best, not their worst.
B. Ozy is a master fighter. It goes against all common sense if can't defend against being tackled (as he already shown), especially when viewing Cap as a near statue. He can easily either evade or counter strike Cap. Ozy even used incredible foot speed to avoid the multiple shots from the assassin.
In the last fight, Ozy was shown incredibly nimble and agile (very graceful).
In summary, Cap is not sprawling/clinching here or attempting to due to character. Ozy (when at his best) will perceive every movement from Cap in slow motion. He will always be a step ahead (calculation with genius intellect as well as speed of brain processing).
Well, are you going to address my argument, or are you a troll?
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
Cap can literally rip Ozy in half, there's a reason we don't think people like the Kingsman can beat Cap, despite being way skilled and faster then him, his strength and durability push the limits of what even street-level superhumans can do.
Does that mean speed and skill mean nothing to Cap? Of course not. But it's a pretty obvious pick when your opponent can literally snap you in half with his bare hands.
Who would win, Bruce Lee or a ****ing Gorilla? The Gorilla is the answer.
I'm not confident anything but peak human is capable of hurting Cap.
To compare this fight to something:
Marv vs Kevin from Sin City but with way less of a speed and skill gap.
Ozy is superhuman in strength, speed and durability. He has multiple feats proving this. You act as if he is a normal human. Hell, Cap failed to ko multiple humans on the elevator with one strike.
It goes both ways. You can't make Cap out of something that's not typical when he's fighting humans and argue against someone else accused of doing the same. It's bias.
That's because they are arguing from bias and not addressing simple logic.
If a character can perceive another character in very slow motion, is the smartest man in the world, has phenomenal calculation ability and is several steps ahead of most people, is a master fighter, and a legit superhuman level in strength and speedthen how in the hell is it still impossible to beat Cap?
1. Cap doesn't tackle when fighting one on one. Out of character. He stands up and fight with punches, kicks, etc. This alone defeats your argument.
2. Ozy being pushed back by Comedian is contradicted by Ozy's later perception ability, speed, and later defense against being tackled by Rorschach. This alone defeats your argument.
No I agree Ozy is superhuman, what I don't agree with is that his strength is Superhuman. I assume you're talking about when he threw Rorschach across the room?
KMC Community Forums
Feb 1st, 2020 02:58 AM
2 spellcasters are better than 1
Thanks Scribble!
