Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
You comparing Bane's revamping the Sith to Valkorion creating an entirely new order. Trying to destroy the one he used to rule over is a major fallacy.
He used to be a Sith, realised how poor they were so went and started the new church of Valkism. In the process abandoning the Sith Empire and the Sith ways, starting a new life entirely.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: So Kaan's brotherhood is an iteration of the ancient practice involving legions of Sith, the "archaic Sith teachings" I mentioned that actually predate Revan's notions of a rule of two by eons.
That's cool and all, but doesn't change what I'm saying one bit. I claimed Bane wanted to free the galaxy of archaic Sith teachings and he factually did. I never claimed what he and Valkorion wanted are the same.
Don't think I didn't notice you consistently ducking Nihilus, though.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
You can't be THIS stupid, I mean honestly. It is like debating with the WBC.
Feats > accolades, Carth. You know this as well as I do.
I like how you can't make the simple logical inference that if Meetra Surik has stronger access to her powers then her Force defenses -which are based on raw power- would obviously be more potent.
She successfully managed to absorb the worst part of Nyriss' ash tier lightning and was knocked off her feet. With a hastily thrown up Force Barrier at that. We know she can use Tutaminis, obviously with more time and her full power she is going to have far more success. That doesn't need encyclopedic medium to make sense Carthage.
The best thing about this entire post is that you keep claiming I place Meetra above Dooku when from the very start I made the argument that Dooku is not vastly superior to her. He might be superior but not by a significant degree.
Because you see Carthage in this world we call logic, I can infer that even though Dooku's Lightning feats aren't on par with Nyriss' ash tier amped feats. Due to accolades and his obvious strength, he clearly doesn't need such feats to deduce the obvious logical conclusions.
This is called learning.
Meetra may not have many direct combat feats, but due to accolades and comparisons to those in her time frame and whom we can scale her to. Then in conclusion she is clearly a very powerful Jedi whom in her prime on nuetral ground is even stronger than her master Traya.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Because as we all know, Kaan's loose coalition of idiots that didn't respect him and that could break down at any moment, is an ancient Sith practice, despite all the evidence to the contrary of all previous DLotS demanding absolute obedience and ruling with an iron fist. None of which has anything to do with why Bane killed them all to begin with.
Except he didn't. The teachings are the same, which in case you didn't realize, is entirely the point, ensure the survival of Sith teachings. He scoffed at the Brotherhood because it didn't act like "heirs to the Sith." Not because they were too Sith like.
I have no idea why you're talking about a character I haven't brought up in almost a year, but I'm guessing it's in a pretty pathetic attempt to save face when you don't actually have anything to say. Am in the ballpark or not? Regardless of what you say, I'll be able to tell soon enough. You're pretty consistent in showing when you have literally nothing to add.
Last edited by FreshestSlice on Oct 4th, 2015 at 05:54 AM
Except that you haven't shown anything for Meetra to suggest she is stronger than Dooku, since like in that last debate you kept wanking Nyriss instead of showing any feats from Meetra that put her above Dooku. So to feats being above accolades, all of which Dooku has over any of the fodder that Meetra fought. Her barrier obviously wouldn't be better if she can't even withstand an attack from a force user who is categorically inferior to Dooku, via feats, accolades, and anything resembling deducible showings off a nexus that would logically place her above Dooku. But keep deepthroating a failed barrier feat, that has no basis in reality for being effective against a more powerful force user
Lighting also put her on her ass, and says nothing about how she'd deal with Dooku's superior telekinesis. Its not hard to follow an inferior force user to Dooku floored her with a circumstantial attack, and you have nothing to suggest she can stand against someone who has been compared to Yoda. Try again.
Being compared to Yoda/being called one of the most powerful force users in History >>>> anything Nyriss has going on other than a nexus feat. I listed feats that put Dooku firmly above Nyriss, and all you did was balk at them and fail to provide anything Meetra has that is comparable. Nyriss's lightning is circumstantial, whereas, Dooku is considerably more powerful in all other areas applicable in the force.
Just nowhere in the realm of Dooku
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Hey, I never claimed they were identical. I said that Kaan's brotherhood is an iteration of the ancient Sith practice of legions of Sith, which they are. A "loose coalition of idiots" pretty much describes any of the non-ROT Sith.
The teachings weren't the same, which is why he instituted the Rule of Two rather than continue with Kaan's brotherhood or another iteration of the ancient Sith involving empires and legions of Sith.
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Nihilus also doesn't care about the Sith and will eventually eat them all but is still called a Sith Lord. I'm bringing him up in a pretty relevant way lol.
Though your emotional reaction here is quite telling.
I never claimed that Bane was Valkorion and that the circumstances were identical. It's an analogy, which I assumed you would have grasped from that whole context thing you guys go on and on about.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Good so you conceded that Full!Meetra's Defenses = Nyriss' amped lightning > Dooku's regular lightning.
You keep claiming that Dooku is vastly more powerful than Amped!Nyriss, yet continue to be unable to prove that his lightning is even comparable to her's. It's almost as if you are conceding without admitting it.
You can also stop making irrelevant claims that Nyriss was amped when everyone here (me) is freely admitting so. You see kiddo, this is a feat for Meetra's Force defenses. A raw power feat at that.
Here are the circumstances so your comprehension can keep up:
>Meetra Surik is hindered by a Dark Side Nexus.
>Darth Nyriss is amped by said Dark Side Nexus.
>Darth Nyriss attacks Meetra Surik with Force Lightning.
>Said Force Lightning instantly ashed two armoured guards in a short burst.
>Meetra Surik unprepared hastily throws up a basic barrier successfully absorbing the 'worst' of said attack and falls over.
Now imagine this:
>Meetra Surik is not hindered.
>Darth Nyriss is not amped.
>Darth Nyriss attacks with Force Lightning.
>Meetra Surik uses Tutaminis to absorb the attack.
Pretty simple logic isn't it?
Could you please stop with the debunked claim that Dooku was comparable to Yoda when in numerous newer sources he's overwhelmed entirely? Thanks.
All you have done so far is fail to disprove my notion that Nyriss' amplified lightning is more potent than any of Dooku's regular showings. Stop trying to change the subject, if you can't argue against it properly concede the point.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
A friendly observation: it seems that you're only interested in thinking in terms of power scaling and outside feats when it suits certain characters.
Why is that?
Food for thought. I'm off for the night, but you should know the erotic value of the outrage and hostility you all displayed for me tonight is pretty damn significant.
I won't forget it.
Last edited by The_Tempest on Oct 4th, 2015 at 06:15 AM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
I am not, I would freely agree with Carthage regarding Dooku's accolades as soon as he drops his feats-only double standard against characters from SWTOR/KOTOR.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Count Dooku is significantly more powerful then a member of the Dark Council? You are overreaching, my friend.
Darth Nyriss could conjure a Force Lightning of such an intensity that it could reduce an individual of Meetra Surik's caliber to a pile of charred ash. You won't find a comparable example from Count Dooku in this regard.
Surik's Force barrier wasn't ineffective, it was really good. As pointed out to you earlier in another thread, a Force barrier is (not) an effective method for nullifying the effects of Force Lightning; most Jedi are forced to rely on a Lightsaber to contain Force Lightning in spite of their training in Tutaminis.
Which isn't an ancient Sith practice. It's something you pulled out of your ass.
Again, how is having,"legions of Sith" a teaching. That's not so something that is demanded by Sith doctrine. It's something you made up because you don't want to admit Valkorion isn't a Sith.
That's what I was looking a for. A laughing gif that adds literally nothing to what you're saying, which is nothing to begin with, because you have nothing to say.
Much more importantly, he's also an actual member of the Triumvirate. He is the acknowledged leader of a faction of Sith, and did not try to change anything about the Sith. At no time did Nihilus, or anyone he knew hint at otherwise. Valkorion? Not so much.
As mad as I must be about the sad attempts by someone I don't know on the internet to rile me up, it's not as telling as the lack of anything substantial in what you've said in this entire conversation.
1.
the occupation, profession, or work of a teacher.
2.
ideas or principles taught by an authority.
"the teachings of the Koran"
I realize this is probably intimidating for you and I certainly don't want to startle you further by posting the definitions for each and every constituent word, but suffice it to say that the practice of cultivating legions of Sith Lords is indeed an "idea" that endured through countless regimes and iterations of that culture, and is therefore indeed a teaching.
One would think that as much time as you spent on 'context', you'd be a bit better at recognizing it.
Sure it does. It conveys my good humor and amusement. Why are you so angry, my son?
One who cares absolutely zilch for its teachings and precepts, but uses it as a means to an end. Kinda like Valkorion and his allegiance to the Sith.
Kinda like Valkorion is acknowledged as Sith by codex and character.
Aaaaaand we're back to Bane trying to change things about the Sith and, wait for it, still being a Sith Lord at the same time.
You have Kreia flat-out tell you that Nihilus cares absolutely nothing for the Sith and will eventually consume them. Which is how Valkorion is similarly described.
Nihilus stands triumphantly {for the first time!} as an example of someone who doesn't care about the Sith order, its members, its teachings, its tenants, or ideals. Someone whose mens rea is as or more destructive and primal that Valkoriate's.
And someone who is still, nonetheless, called Sith.
This is called precedent. And it pretty much shreds your entire position, which as best I gather is that the Sith is some sort of evil sorority that requires like totally lots of commitment and pledge hours and community service for someone to be like a real Sith.
Your personal standards for what is and what is not a true Sith is irrelevant, arbitrary, and totally contradicted by authorities on every level.
But hey, what you lack in an argument, you more than make up for in nerd!rage, so there's that!
Dude, I've got the codex, I've got precedent, and the benefit of reading comprehension. You have vague appeals to OMG context!!!1!, a pubescent mood swing a mile wide, and a generally tenuous grasp of reality.
My favorite part is when you came out of the gate with your try-too-hard piss and vinegar routine only to complain about ad hominems a few posts later when I return fire.
To borrow a phrase, if you can't stand the heat, don't walk in the kitchen.
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BTW, you misused the phrase ad hominem, which isn't a blanket synonym for insult. You can brush up on the difference here, after your crash-course in Sith EU and, of course, HOP.
In the meantime, I'd also recommend the use of some meditative ritual pronto, so you don't burst a blood vessel.
Oct 4th, 2015 05:34 AM
