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Reveiller
Vash The Stampede
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
i dont agree that the Merovingian guy was a former one or his henchman because it dosent make sense since neo was freed and they are some how still plugged into the matrix i just think that they are former programs who were replaced by something else or former agents because they have also said they are hard to kill and since their old they dont have the powers that mr.smith and the new upgrades have i dunno its just another theory
-----Reveiller-----
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Vash The Stampede
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May 25th, 2003 09:28 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Errr, yeah, but so what? We KNOW Neo is powerful, very powerful, no-one denies that. But the blade did hurt him so he is not indestructible.
The only reason we have to think the Merovingian is a previous One is that Persephone said that he used to be like Neo. Nothing else suggests it, especially the way he talks of having survived Neo's 'Predecessors'. And DEFINITELY not the others who were with him- they were just more of his renegade programme henchmen. He would hardly have had to remind them that Neo was only human if they had all been Ones themselves and in any case, whilst they were all dangerous they were not bullet-stopping dangerous, were they?
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 25th, 2003 09:31 AM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
i've been thinking. I can now say that i don't agree with the matrix within a matrix theory. If the real world would be matrix also. then all the zion enhabitans would be plugged also...then why destroy it? why waste 250 thousand batteries? ANd that repetitive cicle the architect mentioned wouldn't have a purpose anymore...
now...i saw yesterday a 'making of' and i had the biggest laugh of the week. The producer (what's his name...) was bragging keanu's work and he said that he's been watching jet li practicing since he was 4 years old and he can honestly say that keanu can take him  ....*bursts into laughter again*....
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May 25th, 2003 12:03 PM |
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zimbo
The craziest man ever
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: England |
I think he just tried to say Keanu worked hard on the fighting thing
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''If any of you so much as pass gas in my direction and upset my delicate nasal passages, your testicles will become my private property''.
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May 25th, 2003 12:11 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
i don't care. he SAID that he honestly belives he can take jet li.
Wich is HILARIOUS!!! Jet li is chinese champion in over 5 styles...(don't know exactly how many). And KEANU HAS A BELLY FOR CHRIST SAKES!!!
but no matter..i'll try not to think. Though it's funny as hell. The guy probably didn't mean that line
Last edited by Dexx on May 25th, 2003 at 07:48 PM
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May 25th, 2003 07:45 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
I have a belly too, what's the problem 
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May 25th, 2003 08:10 PM |
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Karma Toreall
Darth Karma
 Gender: Male
Location: Indiana |
Well your belly doesnt really come in handy when your getting ready to fight Jet LI. Except for more pretection for your stomach.
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Only The Strong Survive
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May 25th, 2003 08:20 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
*remembers jet li bending prison walls in 'the one'*
naaah
oh wait..keanu bent a spoon also! tehee
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May 25th, 2003 08:21 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
bring him on, I prefer a straight fight between the two
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May 25th, 2003 08:23 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
sriously now..i can't belive it that a GROWN-UP could sau that ON TV.
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May 25th, 2003 08:25 PM |
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turin
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: Hithlum |
well i meant that frenchdude and hench men were the residual programs left over from the previous ones. but your right the only thing that could even lead me to think that is when the chick said that french dude was like neo and frenchdude said something about henchmen being predecessors. it was just a thought. maybe frenchdude was the first one, and his risidual program had survived all the others. ya its far fetched but its fun coming up with crap like that.
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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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May 26th, 2003 06:08 AM |
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Reveiller
Vash The Stampede
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
i agree it is fun coming up with stuff like that and with new theories that can make people thing and agree on some stuff
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Vash The Stampede
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May 26th, 2003 08:52 AM |
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xirtam
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
How about Persephone as the mother of the Matrix, not the Oracle. The kiss with Neo was not tearing him and Trinity apart (weakness), but her way of checking that Neo really was in love i.e. she needed to know that he would chose Trinity's door before she led him to the keymaker. The kiss convinced her that he would make that choice that the other 'the one's before him had not.
Last edited by xirtam on May 27th, 2003 at 12:44 AM
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May 27th, 2003 12:35 AM |
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xirtam
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
Also, and mabe a bit too far-fetched, but how about Persephone as an older Trinity with Merovingian as a former 'the one'. She did say that Neo reminded her of how her boyfriend USED to be. Also after the kiss, she told Trinity that she envied her (i.e. Merovingian chose saving the world over her) but that it wouldn't last. Clue to the future???
Last edited by xirtam on May 27th, 2003 at 12:45 AM
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May 27th, 2003 12:35 AM |
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chico
chopper style
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: U.S.A. |
I like a bit of both theories hehe even though they really can't live in harmony. Hurry up November!!!
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"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." --Friedrich Nietzsche
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May 27th, 2003 04:18 AM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
Well, it's not proof that Persephone is the Mother, but it shows that she's gonna play a much more important part than initially believed. she's in the next movie. The trailer at end of the movie, i downloaded it and spliced out a frame from it. Also, I don't believe that the french guy was a former 'one' andPersephone being a former trinity. The Architect said that Neo was the only one to have attachment to humanity to a specific human being. Non of the former 'ones' had that. None of them had love. This is what Persephone meant that her husband used to be like Neo. She meant that he used to love her as Neo loves Trinity.
 Attachment: pesephone revolutions.jpg
This has been downloaded 192 time(s).
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Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 27th, 2003 05:56 AM |
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Reveiller
Vash The Stampede
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Wow I Agree Good Point Tevesh Now It Makes More Sense But I Always Agreed That She Was Going To Play An Even Bigger Role On The Next Matrix Movie
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Vash The Stampede
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May 27th, 2003 06:12 AM |
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chico
chopper style
Gender: Unspecified
Location: U.S.A. |
Man, she's hot!!!
__________________
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." --Friedrich Nietzsche
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May 27th, 2003 06:14 AM |
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The Omega
Z10N0101
 Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
So new a new member, who's seen it three times by now, and had her mind blown totally, not only by the special effects but also by the story and what it implies. Who thought the first movie was cool but the second even cooler, partly due to the loose ends that leave room for endless speculations.
So discussion time, and an apology if what I ponder upon things has already been discussed, but it took my a while to find an exit 
Is the real world just another programmed matrix? The pros and cons of that as I see it: What is the spoon doing in the second movie? Is it just a piece of candy the Oracle hands Neo, or is it in effect a new red pill? How is Smith capable of infecting the real world, if he's only a program. And how can Neo suddenly stop the sentinels like they were bullets? And what does the Architect mean "this will be the sixth time we destroy it (Zion) and we have got increasingly better at it"? Sounds like a simulation.
On the other hand: The storytelling of the Warchoski brothers, while utilizing myths and legends, is in a way fairly simplistic. Not in a bad sense, but the story seems to be "pure". The heros quest, with helpers, guides and enemies. The Matrix Revolutions is supposed to be the conclusion, the tying up of loose ends, not the start of new ones. So storywise the revelation of a Matrix within the Matrix will be confusing.
Is it possible, though? Yes.
It depends on how we chose to interpret Reloaded. From the first movie it seems fairly clear, that the programs do not lie - so whatever the Oracle, Architect, Keymaker etc tells us is true. Who or what then is the Merovingian? He says to Neo, that he has survived all his predecessors and will survive him too. But the Oracle tells us, that the Merovingian is nothing but a program, an old one and a dangerous one, but still just a program. So he can hardly be the first One.
Then, who is Seraph and Persephone? Why does Seraph shine? He seems to be the obstacle to get to the Oracle, just as Persephone is the obstacle to get to the Keymaker.
When Neo suggests that the physic program is the Oracle, and the architet says "please" and almost rolls his eyes, it does not necessarily mean that Neo is wrong. Just that the Achitect thinks that term, "Oracle" is plain stupid. What Reloaded does is telling us that the entire prophecy, the religious aspect is just another form of control (what a twist, I loved it ).
Could Persephone be the "mother of the Matrix"? Yes, she could - if nothing else because the actress playing the Oracle died while shooting the movie. But then, why does she hang out with the Merovingian? He used to be like Neo, we learn. Which means Persephone and the Merovingian have been hanging out for a long time, indeed. So maybe they are a dark and corrupted version of what Neo and Trinity would become, if Neo had chosen the save-Zion door.
Then again... The Merovingian is a program. Perhaps he is the real "Architect"? I cannot say.
What does the Oracle mean, when she tells Neo that he has made a believer out of her? Well, of course, she means what she says But first and foremost Reloaded ends, with Neo being the first of the Ones NOT doing what he was supposed to, namely save Zion.
So if we assume that there are only two worlds, the marx and the real one, how do we explain Ne being able to affect the sentinels? (An assumption, mind you, I've seen ideas spanning from a multiple of matrices, to everything just being a thought in the mind of a deluded child). A friend offered the epanation that the two worlds are leaking into one another. Okay, there's the spoon ("it's not the soon that bend, it is you") the Oracles "red candy" (which btw. may mean something I haven't quite figured out yet), Smith being able to take over Bane and Neo taking his powers to the real. Everything fantastic has a rational explanation, so to speak. The powers of the avatars in the matrix, the One everything. So if we want to stick with two worlds, and not go metaphysical how do we explain the leaking of a virtual cyberspace into a real world?
Well, the human brain is just electrical impulses, so Smith infecting Bane is not completely impossible. And the dented spoon, well, it's just a spoon, eh? No, it's the stopping of the sentinels that is, pardon the expression "baking my noodle."
The visit to the Architect makes Neo "realize the truth" (insert the rest of the buddhist childs speech form movie 1), he goes beyond control and somehow manages to take "something" with him from the Matrix to the real world. But what? And how?
Comments? Ideas? Suggestions?
On a closing note: Some people have complained at the use of computer animations in the comba-scenes in the Matrix. Am I the only one who can see the irony of that?
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
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May 27th, 2003 01:51 PM |
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brandycandygirl
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Duluth ,MN |
hey was up well um iam new so message me
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amy
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May 27th, 2003 06:03 PM |
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