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turin
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: Hithlum |
how about this, it wasnt neo that stoped the sentinals it was niobi with an emp. but since neo is becoming more and more program like, it fried him to. just a thought....
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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May 27th, 2003 07:03 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
IF, as the computer game suggests, Neo's mind remained in the Source, then he can still affect the Source. As this is the machine's mainframe he could therefore affect the sentinels. This is an explanation which explains the sentinels without a need for a Matrix within a Matrix, which is too full of holes to be reasonable.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 27th, 2003 07:37 PM |
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Tasanova
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
I've just seen the film once, but have some thoughts and a question. Please feel free to correct what might be my faulty memory.
First the thoughts: I can't buy the Neo-is-a-program notion. For if he is, then when Morpheus fired off the EMP at the end of the first film, wouldn't he have been comatose then too?
Plus, doesn't using an EMP disable all electronics in a blast radius? In the description of the fall of Zion, it's mentioned that an EMP is fired prematurely - disabling 5 ships. If that's the case, then the hovercraft that rescues the crew of the destroyed Nebuchanezzer couldn't have used an EMP to stop the sentinels (and stun a program-Neo) and then fly onto the scene moments later.
Now for the question. I seem to remember in the tale of the fall of Zion, that, once the machines had wiped out the city, they began to dig again. Why would they do that? Did I just hear it wrong?
Last edited by Tasanova on May 27th, 2003 at 08:20 PM
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May 27th, 2003 08:05 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
I don't remember it being ssid that the machines dig again; anyone else? They would dig for the NEXT Zion, of course.
I don't really think Neo is a programme.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 27th, 2003 08:09 PM |
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Plataveloz
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Netherlands |
If I can remember, Lock had a plan to put all the ships(hovercrafts) at a location(maybe above Zion) to use their EMP charge simultaneously against the machines. Since one ship had triggered its EMP before the others, the plan failed... it was a slaughtering of the machines against the ships.... so then they(the machines) start digging again for Zion!! The only one who susrvived was Bane(the infected human version of agent Smith!!)
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May 27th, 2003 09:09 PM |
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Tasanova
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Ah! That makes sense! Thanks for clearing that up. So Zion is not actually destroyed by the end of Reloaded (gross misinterpretation on my part). Which also makes sense 'cause one would expect the characters to be a bit more upset than they were had it been.
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May 27th, 2003 09:31 PM |
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TheIvan
pro
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: Serbia |
I must notice that religion here is just partially form of control. I guess that it has some purpose and that that purpose is not masked (actually it helps freeing mankind).
The end of the movie doesn't mean that religion failed. Probably Morpheus cannot think good at the moment because he is stuck with emotions of failure, but as he said before as long as they are alive Oracle could have purpose...
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May 27th, 2003 10:15 PM |
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Plataveloz
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Netherlands |
Tas, at the end of The Matrix Reloaded they have only 24 hours left till the machines reach Zion!! I don't think the matrix is a program inside another matrix program otherwise it would be too much like the movie "The Thirteenth Floor (1999)".
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May 27th, 2003 10:17 PM |
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turin
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Hithlum |
well once the emp went off a ship can fire up there systems and go, it is just as the blast is going off that they need to be shut down. i think, otherwise in the first film the ebikanezer (excuse spelling) after using there emp would need major work to get it up and going again.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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May 27th, 2003 10:35 PM |
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The Omega
Z10N0101
 Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
For the suggestion that Niobe used a funky EMP: Why does Neo stop and say ”something is different. I can feel them”?
I haven’t got my hands on the computer game yet, so it’s an interesting thought that Neos mind should remain with the Source. If it wasn’t for the fact, that Neo never reaches the Source.
He chooses the other door. However it does seem as if he’s got the “remote control” so to speak. How that happens… uhrm. This is the, pardon the pun, main-source for the matrix-within-the-matrix theory. However, I don’t need to be in Cyberspace to switch off my TV.
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
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May 28th, 2003 12:15 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Whether he reached the source or not is rather fuzzy; the Keymaker seemed sure the door we went through led there so whilst the Architect specified another door led there he may have had some form of hazy contact with it.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 28th, 2003 12:34 AM |
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The Omega
Z10N0101
Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
The Architect:..."The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion."
The Keymaker, as I see it, only had the role of giving The One the access key/code, and does not necessarily know what's on the other side of the door. Neo has to make the choice himself, The white-suited guy tells us that is the way the Matrix works. There has to be a choice.
Of course, the entire building blows up when Neo refuses the "program", so who knows what happens?
I'll however buy a computerized Source-manifested awareness over metaphysics ANY day  )
(Hmm, November 5th? That is HOW many days?)
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
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May 28th, 2003 12:54 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
But the point remains that having gone through that door he may have had some contact with the Source.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 28th, 2003 12:58 AM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
but then why did Bane survive? Why didn't Bane get killed by the machines?
Also, I just thought of something. It maynot be important to the plot, but it's another little bit of info.
In the first movie, Morpheus said: "I can only show you the door, it is you who must walk through it." That was when they went to go see the oracle. Morpheus found Neo, and then showed him to the oracle.
In a parallel sense, the Keymaker also shows Neo the door (to the source) but it is neo himself who must walk through it. Except this time, Neo is the one who found the Keymaker. It's almost as if between the keymaker and Neo, they play similar roles to Morpheus and Neo. But between the keymaker and Neo, they switch. Neo at times will play the Morpheus type character (finding the keymaker THROUGH the oracle, just as the actual Morpheus had done) and also once again reverting back to Neo, when he was in the keymakers domain, the building that lead to the source.
Could the relationship between the keymaker and Neo foreshadow the death of Morpheus or Neo because the keymaker died?
I'm sure it's just over analyzation, but still....the next movie is open to so many possibilities.
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 28th, 2003 04:21 AM |
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turin
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Hithlum |
i like the idea, and it could go along with the whole revolutions being death (from another thread) but if it were so i think they would have played up the key maker a little more. he had a very small role for such an important part, if you get what i mean.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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May 28th, 2003 04:33 AM |
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turin
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Hithlum |
how about another over analized idea, what if the one variable in the equation isnt neo, but smith?!?! a program had never developed to the point smith has, or perhaps the variable in the equation is the combination of the two. i keep thinking that all the planning the architect did for the one was for not because he think he has a grasp on the variable and is able to control it to some extent. he in my opinion has way underestimated the abilities and the role of the one.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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May 28th, 2003 04:39 AM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
i have no doubt. there is a connection between neo and smith, so if part of neo was implanted into smith, it would make sense that he was an uncontrolled variable
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 28th, 2003 06:08 AM |
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brandycandygirl
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Duluth ,MN |
i have not seen that movie well it does not look to good?
__________________
amy
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May 28th, 2003 05:49 PM |
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turin
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Hithlum |
it is awesome, i highly recomend it.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
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May 28th, 2003 06:06 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
umm..who's bane?
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May 28th, 2003 07:59 PM |
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